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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2016, 05:13 AM
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This is why I don't support grandparent access:

New law gives grandparents legal recourse

Quote:
The couple has a six-year-old granddaughter whom, at one point, they did have custody of for a short time, and a two-year-old grandson, whom they have never seen. Their fight for access has taken its toll and their story is one filled with strong emotion and angst.
Quote:
The couple has spent more than $100,000 in legal fees and now say they have backed off because of what the back and forth and court battle has been doing to their granddaughter.
Read this article and the sob story these grandparents give about the whole issue. Look real long and hard at their picture.

Then read the ACTUAL case law.

Fay Brugger et al v. Jessica Casmey et al, 2013 ONSC 932 (CanLII)
Date: 2013-02-11
Docket: FS-13-0015-00
Citation: Fay Brugger et al v. Jessica Casmey et al, 2013 ONSC 932 (CanLII)
http://canlii.ca/t/fwb2b

Quote:
[3] On January 18, 2013, Fay and Paul commenced an application for custody and or access for Hanna. On that date they also attended before Wright J. in Thunder Bay with an ex parte motion for interim custody, alleging among other things, that Jessica had attempted to commit suicide the day before. On January 18, 2013 Wright J. made an interim interim custody order in favour of Fay and Paul effective to January 24, 2013, and further adjourned the case until that date. Shortly thereafter, on the afternoon of January 18, 2013, Jessica appeared before Herald J. in Thunder Bay with an ex parte motion to set aside Wright J.’s order and return Hanna to her. Justice Herald refused this request and adjourned Jessica’s motion to January 24, 2013 as well. Jessica then retained counsel and brought a further motion returnable January 24, 2013 for Hanna’s return.
So we have grandparents who used a false emergency ex-party order to get the "temporary" custody and are boasting about this conduct in the public media?! Great grandparenting!

The reality of the situation:

Quote:
[6]** * ** * At the time of her birth Jessica, (date of birth December 7, 1992) was 18 years old and James (date of birth October 24, 1979) was 31 years of age.
Their son was 13 years older than the mother. Great job parenting their son!

Quote:
[7]** * ** * Prior to the birth, Fay had contacted the Children’s Aid Society with concerns about the unstable situation the baby was being born into, and the Children’s Aid Society had written to Jessica offering their services.
Grandma really likes to call the CAS to gain control... Despite her own son being involved in the matter.

Oh but, the reality is...

Quote:
[10]** * *In early August 2011, Jessica came to the Children’s Aid Society in a very upset condition indicating she was in a very controlling relationship and needed help. She was referred to the Faye Peterson Transition House.
The son is a jack ass and and an abuser.

Oh and the CAS agreed:

Quote:
[11]** * *At this time the Children’s Aid Society indicated that it was not concerned about Jessica’s parenting, but was concerned about the risk apparent due to James’ conduct.
Their son sounds like he was raised really well! Great parenting by these grandparents!

Quote:
[17]** * *It seems that on January 17, 2013, when Jessica was feeling very depressed, in no small part due to a verbal tirade against her by James and a fear that she might lose Hanna, that she took Hanna over to her brother Darren’s home for him to babysit her.
And these "grandparents" will use any means to get what they want. Clearly their son learned his behaviour from someone... They just have the financial means to stock someone and not get into real trouble for doing it.

Quote:
I was unimpressed by the Bruggers hiring a private detective to follow Jessica and try to make much of a few minor incidents. In any event, many of the issues involved in the affidavits of the parties, while they may have been of interest in determine credibility, were not helpful to myself, nor it seems to my fellow judges, in coming to a decision.
Never give up! Never surrender! They were on a Galaxy Quest to disrupt this parent's life!

This is the cake topper of this disaster:

Quote:
The parties were never married, and never lived in any kind of stable relationship. On top of this already difficult situation, Fay who is James’ mother and the person who must know him best states in her affidavit that Jessica and James have had a “volatile relationship”, that James had a history of violence, and that he had admitted to her that he dealt in drugs,
Great parenting by the grandparents of their son! They should be PROUD of what they accomplished. They have a son who has a history of violence and drug dealing. Now they want to be grandparents? Maybe they should parent their child first and resolve their child's problems.

Barf.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2016, 04:43 PM
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I am a grandparent. I get very emotional reading the threads about my rights. I read the linked cases, and I understand how some posters feel about this change. I feel like some of those grandparents weren't deserving. (The words I'm trying to say will likely come to me after I hit the post reply button).

The linked article quotes...

"The passage of Bill 34 gives grandparents in Ontario the opportunity to ask for access in court in situations where there was an existing relationship, ask for custody in such cases where both parents have passed away, or ask for custody in cases with parents who are totally incapable of taking care of the children."

I don't see anything wrong with a grandparent seeking access or custody in the situations bolded above.

My husband and I have had my 2 year old granddaughter every weekend since she was 6 weeks old. If anything happened to my son, I would want that to continue. If anything happened to my son and his girlfriend, we would expect to take custody of her. If they were truly bad parents, we would expect to take custody of her.

Am I wrong to feel that way?

We have other grandchildren, and she has siblings, but I will use her as an example because she's the one we spend so much time with.
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Old 12-24-2016, 12:31 AM
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Paris. You expressed exactly what I feel. Thank you.

Yes, of course if both parents are alive then the children are with their parents accordingly. But if anything happened to my daughter I know I would have to fight to get access to my grandson. We do have a strong bond as he lived with us for the first 3 years of his life.

So it nice to know there is a law out there that would make it possible.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-24-2016, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paris View Post
I am a grandparent. I get very emotional reading the threads about my rights. I read the linked cases, and I understand how some posters feel about this change. I feel like some of those grandparents weren't deserving. (The words I'm trying to say will likely come to me after I hit the post reply button).

The linked article quotes...

"The passage of Bill 34 gives grandparents in Ontario the opportunity to ask for access in court in situations where there was an existing relationship, ask for custody in such cases where both parents have passed away, or ask for custody in cases with parents who are totally incapable of taking care of the children."

I don't see anything wrong with a grandparent seeking access or custody in the situations bolded above.

My husband and I have had my 2 year old granddaughter every weekend since she was 6 weeks old. If anything happened to my son, I would want that to continue. If anything happened to my son and his girlfriend, we would expect to take custody of her. If they were truly bad parents, we would expect to take custody of her.

Am I wrong to feel that way?

We have other grandchildren, and she has siblings, but I will use her as an example because she's the one we spend so much time with.
she doesn't have other Grandparents?
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:41 AM
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My sons girlfriend was adopted. She doesn't have much of a relationship with her adoptive Mom who only saw my grandaughter twice when she was first born. They haven't spoken for a year.
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Old 12-24-2016, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paris View Post
My sons girlfriend was adopted. She doesn't have much of a relationship with her adoptive Mom who only saw my grandaughter twice when she was first born. They haven't spoken for a year.
that is so sad. I have a cousin who is adopted and had a wonderful relationship with her adopted parents (both now deceased) and her bio siblings once she found them. Another friend found her bio family and has a great relationship with both.

I hope if something does happen that you do get custody as you seem to have stepped up to be active in the childs life.
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Old 12-24-2016, 12:59 PM
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Thank you sots. She was adopted with one of her siblings. She has met her real Mom and a couple of other siblings. They were all taken away for extreme reasons, and those reasons are still a concern. They were taken away too late and the memories they have still cause issues for all of them. She doesn't feel really connected to any of them. It's sad, but we've seen so much improvement in her socially over the last couple of years.
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Old 12-24-2016, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
The bright side:

Any parent with ever-other-weekend BS can now have their parents join as a party to seek additional access. The EOW parent then can use this access time to increase their access.

For EOW parents that used to have their children stay with grandparents for overnight visits can possibly leverage this additional time to increase their access to the children. In fact, they may be able to leverage this additional access time that they spend with the children to grow access.

The downside is that this will only add to the legal complexity of family law matters and make access schedules even more crazy to manage for parents.

Why I think this whole grandparent "stuff" is nonsense. Until such time the Federal Government explicitly states that custody and access is joint unless a compelling reason of Violence and Abuse is proven beyond all reasonable doubt by any party this grandparent access was a waste of resources.

Mostly it covers the edge case of when a parent dies or when a parent has no access to a child to facilitate access with their own parents.

Also parents today already have enough financial strain with child care costing 1,200-1,600 a month in some provinces. A 50,000 legal bill doesn't help the situation at all... The retired generation owns the majority of the wealth currently in Canada. We all know that those who have more money often have more access to legal resources. Rich grandparents can and will make life hell for the next generation. Great job government!
Totally agree!
If this situation arises, it is usually in an already stressful situation. Wish I could decide what kind of influence is in my child's life and decide how much or what kind of access happens with my kids grandparent, especially a controlling psychopath who wants to prove a point that they can get what they want and have nothing better to do. I could go on an all out rant here, but I will just leave it at that.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Yesterday, 04:48 PM
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really make the grandparents pay child support ??? so the father never had life insurance ??? its all about the money , jeez
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