Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Political Issues

Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2014, 08:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,035
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default NCP and Expenses

I am sure this has been discussed before, but why are NCP not allowed the claim child related expenses if they pay for the 100%?

For example, in the summer we have the kids half the time, which amounts to every other week... during this time Dad and I both work, so we must pay child care, Mom doesn't contribute so Dad is left with paying 100 % of the cost. Dad is unable to claim these expenses on his tax, yet Mom can claim 100 % of child care.

Same goes with the fitness credit. We sign the kids up for activities when they are with us, but we can't write off these deductions like Mom can.

I understand the CS guidelines take into consideration tax rates and such, but with the variety of deductions available and the assumption that both parents contribute to every expense, why can only the CP claim expenses?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2014, 08:28 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dorking
Posts: 347
KeepSmiling is on a distinguished road
Default

NCP can claim childcare expenses that they pay directly to the childcare provider.

You need to have the childcare provider issue you the receipt in your name directly for the fees that you pay directly.

The fitness tax credit it available to either parent that pays it, as long as the limit per child is not exceeded - thus cooperation between cp and ncp is required.

Last edited by KeepSmiling; 04-18-2014 at 08:30 PM. Reason: clarification
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2014, 08:48 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,035
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepSmiling View Post
NCP can claim childcare expenses that they pay directly to the childcare provider.

You need to have the childcare provider issue you the receipt in your name directly for the fees that you pay directly.

The fitness tax credit it available to either parent that pays it, as long as the limit per child is not exceeded - thus cooperation between cp and ncp is required.
Do you happen to have a link from CRA on this? I have been looking through CRA stuff and everything I see states that anyone who pays support cannot claim deductions. It would be great to be able to claim some of the child care and fitness amounts, as Mom is not asked to contribute.

Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2014, 02:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,717
HammerDad will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
I am sure this has been discussed before, but why are NCP not allowed the claim child related expenses if they pay for the 100%?

For example, in the summer we have the kids half the time, which amounts to every other week... during this time Dad and I both work, so we must pay child care, Mom doesn't contribute so Dad is left with paying 100 % of the cost. Dad is unable to claim these expenses on his tax, yet Mom can claim 100 % of child care.

Same goes with the fitness credit. We sign the kids up for activities when they are with us, but we can't write off these deductions like Mom can.

I understand the CS guidelines take into consideration tax rates and such, but with the variety of deductions available and the assumption that both parents contribute to every expense, why can only the CP claim expenses?
If your spouse pays for child care during the summer, he should be able to claim it. Actually, as a s7 expense, it should be split proportional to income AFTER tax deductions are taken into consideration.

If your spouse is paying his proportional share of s7 expenses, and the ex is getting the full benefit of the tax deduction, you are doing it wrong.

All s7 expenses are paid proportionally on the ACTUAL cost of the expense. The actual cost takes into consideration any tax rebates available. For example, the child fitness credit allow the CP to claim up $500 per year in eligible activities, like hockey, dance etc. It would give that parent a rebate of about $100 in taxes. For ease, lets say the activity costs $500 even and each parent makes the same money. So if the CP gets $100 back in tax rebates because of the tax credit, it means the actual cost of the activity is $400, which each parent would split.

The same thing goes for child care. If child care costs $6000 a year, and gives the CP a tax refund of $1500 as a result, than the actual cost of child care is $4500, which would be split proportionally to income.

There are two ways to determine this:

1. figure out what the CP would get to claim based off of income and then deduct the rebate from the upfront cost; or

2. have the CP do their taxes twice, once including the child related deductions, and once without. You then split the rebate related to the child expenses proportionally to amount paid in.

The issue is, both of the above ways are hard to do, especially if you are dealing with a high conflict person. They won't want to give you info related to their income and/or any of the "their" rebate. So at best you are left with basing the numbers off of a guess.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2014, 09:38 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Dorking
Posts: 347
KeepSmiling is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Do you happen to have a link from CRA on this? I have been looking through CRA stuff and everything I see states that anyone who pays support cannot claim deductions. It would be great to be able to claim some of the child care and fitness amounts, as Mom is not asked to contribute.

Thank you!
check out this

Income Tax Folio: S1-F3-C1, Child Care Expense Deduction

I believe that the key words are that the child resides with the supporting person at any point during the year.

During those summer weeks, the NCP is the supporting person.

If you can support the fact that the child lived with you during a time period that required child care (for work etc), then you should be able to deduct those fees that you paid for those summer weeks.

Be prepared to defend it if asked.

It's like shared custody situations - and the NCP is actually in a shared custody position for the summer.

But again, the NCP must pay the provider directly for the weeks that he child is with them in the summer and the provider must issue the receipts directly to the paying parent.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2014, 08:59 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,151
MS Mom is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
If your spouse pays for child care during the summer, he should be able to claim it. Actually, as a s7 expense, it should be split proportional to income AFTER tax deductions are taken into consideration.

If your spouse is paying his proportional share of s7 expenses, and the ex is getting the full benefit of the tax deduction, you are doing it wrong.

All s7 expenses are paid proportionally on the ACTUAL cost of the expense. The actual cost takes into consideration any tax rebates available. For example, the child fitness credit allow the CP to claim up $500 per year in eligible activities, like hockey, dance etc. It would give that parent a rebate of about $100 in taxes. For ease, lets say the activity costs $500 even and each parent makes the same money. So if the CP gets $100 back in tax rebates because of the tax credit, it means the actual cost of the activity is $400, which each parent would split.

The same thing goes for child care. If child care costs $6000 a year, and gives the CP a tax refund of $1500 as a result, than the actual cost of child care is $4500, which would be split proportionally to income.

There are two ways to determine this:

1. figure out what the CP would get to claim based off of income and then deduct the rebate from the upfront cost; or

2. have the CP do their taxes twice, once including the child related deductions, and once without. You then split the rebate related to the child expenses proportionally to amount paid in.

The issue is, both of the above ways are hard to do, especially if you are dealing with a high conflict person. They won't want to give you info related to their income and/or any of the "their" rebate. So at best you are left with basing the numbers off of a guess.
I was ordered to produce my entire tax return (the actual return, not just the assessment) so that the payor of S7/support could find those tax refunds.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2014, 08:43 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,326
Beachnana is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepSmiling View Post
check out this

Income Tax Folio: S1-F3-C1, Child Care Expense Deduction

I believe that the key words are that the child resides with the supporting person at any point during the year.

During those summer weeks, the NCP is the supporting person.

If you can support the fact that the child lived with you during a time period that required child care (for work etc), then you should be able to deduct those fees that you paid for those summer weeks.

Be prepared to defend it if asked.

It's like shared custody situations - and the NCP is actually in a shared custody position for the summer.

But again, the NCP must pay the provider directly for the weeks that he child is with them in the summer and the provider must issue the receipts directly to the paying parent.
What happens when the usual daycare has to be paid throughput the summer regardless of whether the child is attending. Many daycares, especially in large cities where space is at a premium, require full payment during summer to keep child's spot. My l has to pay for the summer regardless of whether the children attend. She is a teacher so enjoys those long summer vacations. She is allowed 2 weeks, when the daycare provider takes vacation and closes the daycare. Its a registered daycare as well.

So, if the child is with the NCP for a period of time and that parent puts the child into a summer camp will that parent also pay for the daycare not being used. Can you claim for both?
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2014, 04:16 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,836
stripes is on a distinguished road
Default

I would think that you can claim for both. It's necessary to pay the customary daycare in order to hold the child's place. It's necessary to hold the child's place in order that the custodial parent can work. So paying to hold a daycare spot while the child is vacationing with the NCP is a reasonable S7 expense, at least in my view.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2014, 06:45 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,035
Berner_Faith will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
I would think that you can claim for both. It's necessary to pay the customary daycare in order to hold the child's place. It's necessary to hold the child's place in order that the custodial parent can work. So paying to hold a daycare spot while the child is vacationing with the NCP is a reasonable S7 expense, at least in my view.
I think each parent could likely claim the expense as it has been paid, but I am not so sure both parents would be responsible for paying the full amount. Childcare is only a S7 when it is necessary for the CP to work, so if they end up taking a 2 week vacation with the kid, but still has to pay for daycare, the other parent should not be responsible for that cost, as the daycare is not required at that time for that parent to work.

That seems like a sticky situation and honestly I am not sure how it works when that is the case?
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:39 AM.