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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2015, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Mom View Post
That requires them being asked if they want it. A presumption is a presumption, meaning it is assumed before it is even asked.

Can't make a parent be a parent, and the other parent shouldn't have to deal with the bs that comes out of a presumptive 50/50.

Of course, my opinion is based on my experience. And, the other parent isn't parenting at all. Period. Nadda. And I'm definitely not the only parent raising their child alone.
So we agree, the rest is semantics
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2015, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Presumptive 50-50 parenting UNLESS the parents agree otherwise, or a court decrees otherwise because one parent has been proven unfit.

I don't see what's so hard about it.

If one parent wants less time, that's their choice. But at least this way, one parent can't HOG all the time when the other parent wants half.

Right now, we have no presumptive arrangement at ALL, assumptions that vary from judge to judge, with many still believing the mother should have the bulk of the time, and status quo of that assumption being adhered to even if it was done through manipulation.

Of course, I'm one of those parents who have more than 50 because the other parent was disinterested. So I might be a bit biased.
I think if separated parents could agree, they'd make their own arrangement - no courts or presumptive anything to deal with.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
...IMO, if one is against share parenting than they don't really believe in equality. Children deserve both parents equally, and the courts either need to start understanding willing that or be forced to accept it.
Exactly. That should be the presumption from the start. Other countries get it.
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:25 AM
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Well as we can see many different scenerios produce many different outcomes.

If you have 2 parents who can agree on how they will parent after separation then its not a problem.

i donot see how having a presumption of shared parenting will change much. If one parent does not agree the they will end up on court anyway.

I think there are bigger battles to fight. There needs to be firmer rules of disclosures, only 1 CC and 1 SC and then Next week you are in court ready on not. Because it seems to be that more problems occur when the system keeps giving parties another chance or only dealing with one part of the issues. The system currently works to increase legal costs and to muddy the waters of proceedings.

Look at LF32. Why the heck could the judge not just make his comments an order. Or say looks this is the reality here, so you have 24 hours to go and make a settlement along these lines or I will make it for you. Which is what is going to happen in January anyway. If you were a criminal on trail you would have the right to a quick and speedy trail. But if you are child your life will be in limbo,while a bunch of lawyers and judges " play the game"

Last edited by Beachnana; 10-29-2015 at 02:30 AM. Reason: Spelling and clarification
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:33 AM
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There are definitely benefits to a presumption of equally shared parenting. Presently, judges make things up based on their personal biases. Some matters get to trial because one or both parties is being unreasonable but at trial, presently it's roulette. The rebuttable presumption of equally shared would ensure that the result of a trial would be based on the child's interests instead of the opinion of someone who is not an expert on children's interests.

As has been said above, another thing this assumption would do is provide a strong financial incentive to agree to equally shared unless there is a clear reason to not do that. If one party, after a trial, is found to have taken an unreasonable position, then that party would be liable for paying costs to the reasonable party.

If one parent agrees to not have much time with the children (I do not mean a situation in which one parent feels obligated to do loads of paid work because the other parent refuses to), then that's unfortunate for the children. The case would not go to trial because the two parents, assumedly, would agree to that arrangement.
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:40 AM
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I don’t support the presumption of ESP and believe every case should continue to be judged on an individual basis. Although I suspect in 80-90% of the cases ESP would be of value, I can’t let go of the 10-20% of children who would suffer terrible consequences from the presumption, and the amount of time it would take to revert to protect them - The system moves too slowly to help those in immediate need.
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by mcdreamy View Post
I donít support the presumption of ESP and believe every case should continue to be judged on an individual basis. Although I suspect in 80-90% of the cases ESP would be of value, I canít let go of the 10-20% of children who would suffer terrible consequences...
That doesn't make a lot of sense.

If you think ESP would be of value to 80 or 90% of situations, to help speed things along, in a fairer fashion, you think the 100% should continue to work the way it does, because the 10 to 20% might suffer "terrible consequences". It's simply a presumption, to start off with. Obviously, mitigating factors could override that presumption, for this 10 to 20% you speak of, to avoid the "terrible consequences".
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Old 10-29-2015, 09:55 AM
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Presumption of equal shared parenting, seems to work, in its incarnations, in other countries such as Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Australia, and various U.S. states,etc.

So what is so different about Canada, where this would not work?
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdreamy View Post
I donít support the presumption of ESP and believe every case should continue to be judged on an individual basis. Although I suspect in 80-90% of the cases ESP would be of value, I canít let go of the 10-20% of children who would suffer terrible consequences from the presumption, and the amount of time it would take to revert to protect them - The system moves too slowly to help those in immediate need.
Although I understand what you're saying, about protecting the 10 - 20% that ESP would not be appropriate for, I do think it's unfair that under the current system the 80-90% that would be appropriate for ESP may suffer negative consequences to protect that 10-20%. The system does move slowly to help those in immediate need and the time it takes to protect the 80-90% is exponentially higher than it would take for the 10-20%.
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Old 10-29-2015, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by blinkandimgone View Post
Although I understand what you're saying, about protecting the 10 - 20% that ESP would not be appropriate for, I do think it's unfair that under the current system the 80-90% that would be appropriate for ESP may suffer negative consequences to protect that 10-20%. The system does move slowly to help those in immediate need and the time it takes to protect the 80-90% is exponentially higher than it would take for the 10-20%.
Oh no Blink, I'm behind ESP -- I'm just not going to get behind presumptive ESP until the system is fixed and files move swiftly for the benefit of the children. I won't sacrifice the safety of even 1% of the children in our society, for 90% of the best interest of any adult, male or female. Without a doubt, it's not fair to adults. But I've yet to read anything posted here or on other sites that changes my mind re: presumptive.
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