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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #91 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2014, 09:14 AM
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If FRO was online they could set up a connection. You file your Income tax return and your NOA is sent to FRO who i mediately calculates CS based on both parties income. If you donot file income tax. Penalty
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  #92 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2014, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
If FRO was online they could set up a connection. You file your Income tax return and your NOA is sent to FRO who i mediately calculates CS based on both parties income. If you donot file income tax. Penalty
Whoa....transparency - what a novel idea . Last source of income would be a handy detail on the NOA as well.

At the moment we rely on forced cooperation. I imagine that reduces a few instances of default in CS/SS, but it obviously doesn't work on the completely uncooperative.

If FRO were handed the ability to update child support amounts based on NOAs, then, in my opinion, user fees wouldn't be out of line at all. Income could be generated to offset operational costs. Personally, I'd be prepared to pay a fee for that type of automatic service. Support Payors would be too, especially if their SS/CS were being adjusted on the downward scale based on NOA.
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  #93 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2014, 07:30 PM
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Exactly. Well FRO would work for. Ost of the population. The uncooperative would still be uncooperative. But FRO could spend more time and effort on them. It would be a win win situation for many. You NOA goes down and your CS go down and vice versa.

Its so simple its scary.

But again Family Law and Family finances are not a Revenue stream so they are not interested. I bet if CS wS taxable or tX dedictable the governemt would be very very interested in ensuring it was well accounted for, accurate and uptodate on all accounts.

Still we can dream. In the meantime my daugther CS for the past 2 months has come in odd bits of money on odd days until he paid the full amount 1 day becore the next months was due. He seems to think its funny! And FRO attitude is well at least he paid it!

Oh well. Thats how it rolls.
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  #94 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2014, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post
Exactly. Well FRO would work for. Ost of the population. The uncooperative would still be uncooperative. But FRO could spend more time and effort on them. It would be a win win situation for many. You NOA goes down and your CS go down and vice versa.

Its so simple its scary.

But again Family Law and Family finances are not a Revenue stream so they are not interested. I bet if CS wS taxable or tX dedictable the governemt would be very very interested in ensuring it was well accounted for, accurate and uptodate on all accounts.

Still we can dream. In the meantime my daugther CS for the past 2 months has come in odd bits of money on odd days until he paid the full amount 1 day becore the next months was due. He seems to think its funny! And FRO attitude is well at least he paid it!

Oh well. Thats how it rolls.
I guess my thought was if they automated it all, they'd eliminate the redundancy of systems that have the same information, yet don't communicate with each other and they'd reduce costs, free up labour to pursue the real difficult cases.

I'd be much more prepared to pay an annual user fee for an updated support order over the whole freaking court process I'm required to do now. Much easier, much less animosity and no arguing unless completely necessary.

FRO's attitude will always be "consider yourself lucky" because there is "thousands out there that don't pay". According to FRO, you aren't supposed to be counting on that CS monthly.
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  #95 (permalink)  
Old 02-24-2014, 10:10 PM
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Governments on different levels (CRA is federal and FRO is provincial) don't talk to each other like that. Even different federal departments don't talk to each other.

Where I work, we deal with federal, provincial and municipal information sharing and it's regularly a nightmare. Lots of hard copies send around by courier, believe it or not.

I think it's supposed to be that way out of privacy concerns or something.
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  #96 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2014, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Governments on different levels (CRA is federal and FRO is provincial) don't talk to each other like that. Even different federal departments don't talk to each other.
Sounds like the Feds and the Province got a divorce Maybe Our Family Wizard will assist with the communication problems?
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  #97 (permalink)  
Old 02-25-2014, 07:54 AM
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considering that your privacy is basically out the window once you and the courts are involved in a family law case (anyone can go and request your file, unless there is an order keeping it in camera)
I am not sure if there is a justification for saying that privacy concerns would be an impediment to intra governmental communications...at least as it pertains to FRO and CRA...Plus you already check your relationship status on the tax forms, so CRA has a pretty good idea of your marital status... Just occurred to me that FRO can also put in a request to CRA to garnish any returns or credits owed to you also.
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  #98 (permalink)  
Old 10-30-2016, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karmaseeker View Post
Hello Mr. Trudeau,

I recently watched your video with the cartoonist outlining your platform focused on the middle class and their struggles primarily with Debt. While, you seem to be saying a lot of things that resonate with me there is one issue that you have not recognized and I am curious as to what your stance is on this issue.

The issue that I am talking about is that of the Federal Child Support Guidelines. If you want to address Debt and want to resolve personal debt in this country, I don’t think you can do that with out addressing the Federal Guidelines and the gross mis-justice within them. You want to make real and effective change for the families of Canada then this is a platform that will win you tremendous support. In Canada we have a very high divorce rate and while it may appear that divorce rates may be on the decrease, I would suggest that that is because fewer people are getting married and are choosing to cohabitate instead. That doesn’t mean fewer people are having babies or fewer children are raised in split homes regardless of marital status. In both scenarios the Federal Child Support Guidelines apply.

When you look behind the curtain of these laws, you will find our great Canadian Families riddled with DEBT. Debt not only because of the ridiculously long and drawn out family proceedings and lawyers costs but because of the guidelines themselves.
  • Did you know it can sometimes take years for families to resolve issues through family court? The process is set up that way. While, employee disputes are handled in mere months, family law draws things out as long as possible requiring a case conference, settlement conference, trial and a potential for yearly motions for any adjustments in child support?
  • Did you know that many middle class families have no access to legal representation because they “make too much” to qualify for legal aid but in reality don’t make any where near enough for Lawyers’ fees.
  • Did you know that Federal Guidelines base their figures on “Gross” amount of income which fails to reflect an actual income after taxes? and that that money is given to the recipient tax free?
  • Did you know that the system is set up for double dipping or even triple dipping? A mother (Majority of cases have the mother as the recipient) can demand child support, as well as spousal support, and then on top of that Section 7 expenses. Each being calculated by the original gross income which therefore gets compounded into such a foolish amount that there is simply not enough to live off of? This in itself is a breech of the Canadian Constitution: 7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice. If you steal from a man more than he can reasonable survive on you steal his rights to life, liberty and security.
  • Did you know that our military men who receive a pension for disability have that income “grossed” up only in a family court and not in any other situation. The CRA, Veteran’s affairs, or any other governmental agency does not recognize this or even know how to calculate it as it is unheard of. Only a computer program in the hands of Lawyers and Judges can calculate this made up calculation
  • Did you know that second families are not awarded any recognition, security, or legal rights as the children of the first families? Only in family court can a judge demand a payment towards post secondary education and that children from a second marriage, or still married family are not afforded the same rights?
  • Did you know that The federal Guidelines only being guidelines award judges so much power that they can over rule the table amounts and create any amounts they see fit?
  • Did you know that a payer can be forced to pay for extracurricular activities regardless of his ability to pay? In families not split, parents can veto an activity if it falls into a category of luxury and out of their ability to afford it but in family court, children’s downhill skiing can take precedence over the payers ability to pay for basis bills.

I know more than I ever cared to know about family law and as a Canadian citizen I am disgusted with the a system that has nothing to do with Justice. I expected better from Canada.

What can you do about it?
  • Federal Guidelines should be based on a net not gross amount. Judges should be restricted to line 236 of the payers tax return. Absolute! No “in the digression” of the judge. That is too much power for one person to wield.
  • Spousal support should be determined after the child support has been deducted (Line 236 - Child Support = New amount from which to calculate spousal). Unless in a circumstance where their is no child support and then amount may start from line 236.
  • Section 7 expenses percentages should be calculated by (line 236 - Child Support - Spousal Support = new amount from which to determine %) as well for the receiver ( line 236 + Child Support + Spousal Support = Their new amount from which to calculate percentage.)
  • Court process of the Family Rules should be scrapped and family matters should be handled as expediently as possible reflective more of a mediation process like employee or union disputes.
  • Expediting proceedings are in the best interest of the children which is the primary mandate of the family law process, minimizes continued acrimony, and reduces court costs.
  • All split parents should automatically be awarded joint custody and forced to do co-parenting classes should they show signs of high conflict instead of the current approach that high conflict is reason enough to award sole custody. Many mother’s know this and then create conflict to ensure their award of sole custody, awarding them absolute power and absolute increased wealth through above mentioned triple dipping.
  • Fatherless children are far more likely to tax the country by early pregnancy, addictive and anti-social behaviours, and need of more mental health programs, or even jail time. Yet, the system almost forces men into the background and fails to understand Malicious Mother Syndrome or Child Alienation Syndrome. Therefore, judges overseeing mediation in family law matters need to be educated and made aware of the reality of the dynamics of many high conflict cases.
  • The cultural indoctrination of “Dead Beat Dads” needs to be equaled out with social awareness of “Malicious Mothers”. A family court room is a perfect playground for someone to “legally” harass, slander, make false allegations, and financial destroy the opposing party should they be inspired by vindictiveness. There are zero fail safes to prevent this. I fully believe men should provide for their children and that at one time protections needed to be put in place to product mothers but the pendulum has swung far too far to the left. And where are the protections for fathers?

Mr Trudeau, If you want to take seriously the issues to the middle class and debt, this issue should be brought on to your platform. Debt is not good for families and it is not good for the economy. Therefore, the Federal Guidelines are not good for the economy. If you were to assure me that you take these concerns seriously and promise real change to this debt producing system, not only would I vote for you I would advocate for you.
Fantastic article, I have personally lived through many of your points and feel they are right on the mark. I hope that you have forwarded this excellent letter to the PM. I would be interested if you receive a reply.
Regards
Bake
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  #99 (permalink)  
Old 10-31-2016, 12:03 PM
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They were never married to start with....it's the whole "common law is not recognized" a la Quebec

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Sounds like the Feds and the Province got a divorce Maybe Our Family Wizard will assist with the communication problems?
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Old 04-26-2017, 12:07 AM
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I support your issues. It ... I .. it leaves me speachless!!! This entire process is just insane. I was married for 4 years ..... im not at 3 years and 7 months, 50k in litigation and all I've accomplished is a 50/50 custody with my children through arbitration last spring. I would love to do my part to address these issues. Please let me know if there is anything I can do!
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