Male Reproductive Rights

[Suchislife]

There was an episode of Dr. Phil in a similar vein awhile ago.
A man had a sexual encounter with a woman. Ultimately she became pregant.
The man went on to marry and have two children. After a few years she took him to court for support etc....
He had an issue with suddenly being financially responsible for a child he didn't know existed.

[billm]

Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines

...
By the way calling me a "man-hater" in a PM is not acceptable. Just because I do not agree with you does not make me a man hater.

midnightvampyr has also sent me derogatory PM's. Although overall I find his comments and views entertaining, his inability to act in a civil manner in this forum sheds much light on his lack of ability to be a rational person. He fails to grasp that he lives in a society that generally does not share his view of no responsibility to a child from an unplanned pregnancy.

Some people accept the reality check that this forum gives them, unfortunately for midnightvampyr, his child, and the child's mother, some reject it.

As a side note, he questioned whether I was a man or a woman, which to me is the ultimate compliment (that I have received before here on this forum) as I believe that it shows me to be fair and gender neutral when it comes to divorce and separation issues. Thanks midnightvampyr.

[midnightvampyr]

Hi Bill,

Kindly refrain from adding any comments to this thread. I already know that you are NO CHOICE for men and of dubious knowledge when it comes to family law and its origination and current rules. As for your opinion that most people on this site support a woman's autonomous decision making to extort money from someone who did not want to have a child with her, I suppose that would depend upon who you associate with. My experience is that truly intelligent people do NOT BELIEVE that a woman has the right to extort money from the male.

Kindly read my first line. I am not looking to get into a public debate with someone that shares your opinions on this matter.

Thanks.

[standing on the sidelines]

Originally Posted by billm

midnightvampyr has also sent me derogatory PM's. Although overall I find his comments and views entertaining, his inability to act in a civil manner in this forum sheds much light on his lack of ability to be a rational person. He fails to grasp that he lives in a society that generally does not share his view of no responsibility to a child from an unplanned pregnancy.

Some people accept the reality check that this forum gives them, unfortunately for midnightvampyr, his child, and the child's mother, some reject it.

As a side note, he questioned whether I was a man or a woman, which to me is the ultimate compliment (that I have received before here on this forum) as I believe that it shows me to be fair and gender neutral when it comes to divorce and separation issues. Thanks midnightvampyr.

agree with you 100%. Notice how he refuses to answer if he used a condom or not?? I am thinking that he did not and that is why he sidesteps the question.

[billm]

Originally Posted by midnightvampyr

Hi Bill,

Kindly refrain from adding any comments to this thread. I already know that you are NO CHOICE for men and of dubious knowledge when it comes to family law and its origination and current rules. As for your opinion that most people on this site support a woman's autonomous decision making to extort money from someone who did not want to have a child with her, I suppose that would depend upon who you associate with. My experience is that truly intelligent people do NOT BELIEVE that a woman has the right to extort money from the male.

Kindly read my first line. I am not looking to get into a public debate with someone that shares your opinions on this matter.

Thanks.

lol, thanks, seriously, thanks. You're a riot.

[FreeNow]

I think that this case rests on whether a condom was used or not. A condom is used today to prevent STDs and pregnancy.
If the condom was used and failed, the father should have a say in the continuation of the pregnancy, not just the mother.
If no condom was used it becomes a grey area. However, at the time both parties (probably drunk) were not intending to produce a child.
I think the potential father should have a say about the continuation of the pregnancy.
If he has no say, he shouldn't have to pay support.

FN

[tmcelrea]

midnightvampyr - Put asside any feelings you have on women who extort support from their ex's. You had sex with the woman and got her pregnant. What did you expect? Unless either one of you were "fixed" there is always a chance. You hit the jackpot and now you have a child. I'm sure that's going to be a lot to deal with emotionally.

There is no arguement against women who get pregnant on purpose to try and extort money from men. Casual sex or not....you consented to the act knowing the consequences.

At that point you gave up your right to the decision making process of whether or not she can have the child full term or retain custody of the child. I believe that is what you are agruing to have changed. I'm pro-choice and the right to decide is her choice since its her body. Can you imagine the horror a woman would have to endure if she is raped, gets pregnant and then the rapist argues in court that she has to have an abortion because he doesn't want the child or perhaps argues that she must keep the baby full term. And all of that because he didn't consent to making a child with that woman but he did have sex with her?

Perhaps start spending more of your energy trying to be in the child's life. There is nothing more rewarding.

[standing on the sidelines]

Originally Posted by tmcelrea

midnightvampyr - Put asside any feelings you have on women who extort support from their ex's. You had sex with the woman and got her pregnant. What did you expect? Unless either one of you were "fixed" there is always a chance. You hit the jackpot and now you have a child. I'm sure that's going to be a lot to deal with emotionally.

There is no arguement against women who get pregnant on purpose to try and extort money from men. Casual sex or not....you consented to the act knowing the consequences.

At that point you gave up your right to the decision making process of whether or not she can have the child full term or retain custody of the child. I believe that is what you are agruing to have changed. I'm pro-choice and the right to decide is her choice since its her body. Can you imagine the horror a woman would have to endure if she is raped, gets pregnant and then the rapist argues in court that she has to have an abortion because he doesn't want the child or perhaps argues that she must keep the baby full term. And all of that because he didn't consent to making a child with that woman but he did have sex with her?

Perhaps start spending more of your energy trying to be in the child's life. There is nothing more rewarding.

very well put. He doesn't seem to understand the the concept of taking responsibility for ones actions. You know that now you will probably get the pm calling you a man-hater.

[standing on the sidelines]

Originally Posted by FreeNow

I think that this case rests on whether a condom was used or not. A condom is used today to prevent STDs and pregnancy.
If the condom was used and failed, the father should have a say in the continuation of the pregnancy, not just the mother.
If no condom was used it becomes a grey area. However, at the time both parties (probably drunk) were not intending to produce a child.
I think the potential father should have a say about the continuation of the pregnancy.
If he has no say, he shouldn't have to pay support.

FN

but if he doesn't use a condom by choice then he is not taking a very simple step to prevent pregnancy. We all know that sex can result in a baby so it is up to each party to take responsibility for their own birth control. Yes woman can lie about being on the pill, but men can also lie and say that they had the snip, snip done. If a man lies about having the procedure done and the woman gets pregnant, then what??

Just so I am clear on this, I have no sympathy for the woman that lie about being on the pill. On the same note, if a man is going to have a fling with someone that is not someone he wants long term then he should take the necessary steps to prevent not only pregnancy but STD's also.

[billm]

In the end, it does not matter how or why the child was conceived or born, even if by deceit (although indirect deceit becuse no matter the precaution (real or implied), pregnancy is a risk that is known to both!)

The child exists, is innocent in its creation, and has a right to be supported and raised not by society, but by its parents, both of them. The child is no more a child of one parent than the other, it exists and has two parents.

This is not the law of nature etc, it is how we have formed our society and our laws. The other element is that the woman has the right to keep or terminate the pregancy, which may be against the wishes of the father, but you can't go 50/50 and half abort a child.

There are issues with family law (amounts of support, access rights, gender bias, adversarial by design), but in my opinion the right of the woman to chose and the right of the child to be supported by each parent according to the means of each parent is not one of them.