Male Reproductive Rights

[billm]

Ok midnightvampyr,

You are now the king of all. You make the laws.

What is the law for your situation? You conceived a child with a woman. You do not want the child, she does. Now what?

She can have the child, but you are not responsible for it in any way?
She is forced to abort the child?
You have to pay for support for the child, but less than what is currently in the CS tables?

How should the world work in this case?

[Daba]

Originally Posted by midnightvampyr

I believe that it is much too easy to "create" a child. It is far more difficult to raise one. That is why I suggest that there should be a written legal agreement to bring a child into this world and signed by both parties. If it is not signed by both parties, the other party can make a more informed decision regarding abortion/adoption or raising the child on his/her own. I think this is the only "fair" option. Being extorted with the government's blessing is tantamount to being psychologically and financially raped repeatedly.

While obviously it is better to bring a child into this world when both parents are happy with the idea, I don't agree with what you are proposing at all. Kids are innocent and need to be protected, period.

During which month of gestation would the contract need to be signed?

What would happen if a woman did not know she was pregnant unitl she is rushed to the hospital with mysterious pains, or finds out very late in the pregnancy? (Rare but it happens)

What happens if the couple agree to have a child and then split up when the woman is two months pregnant? Or even seven months pregnant? Can the man 'opt out' of this supposed contract?

What happens if the child who was planned for and 'wanted' turns out to be triplets during the first ultra sound, and dad says 'no way, if you decide to have them, then you are on your own'? I refuse to sign this contract. Or says, 'ok for one kid' but you have to have a selective reduction on the other two embryos?

What happens if the embryo has a suspected case of downs syndrom? can dad say, I agree to pay for a child but not all the extra expenses associated with raising a child with a disability?

I'm sure that there are a lot of scenarios where things aren't simple. Life's not fair, accept it and enjoy your child.

[standing on the sidelines]

Originally Posted by midnightvampyr

I read your response. You are Pro Choice for women and No Choice for Men. Hence the problem. By the way, many intelligent women are Pro Choice for both men and women. I quote

"Justice therefore dictates that if a woman makes a unilateral decision to bring pregnancy to term, and the biological father does not, and cannot, share in this decision, he should not be liable for 21 years of support. Or, put another way, autonomous women making independent decisions about their lives should not expect men to finance their choice." --

Karen DeCrow, former NOW President ( National Organisation for Women, U.S.A.)

You had a choice and had sex. It is your choice not to get snipped. Pro choice means that a woman has a right to say if she wants to have an abortion or not. It is a medical procedure. Once you had sex with her without 100% birth control you knew the consequences. Like I said condoms break and people lie about using protection (the pill etc) You made your choice and have to live with it.

[midnightvampyr]

Presently the "rules" allow NO CHOICE for men. They allow opportunistic woman, aka golddiggers, the opportunity to extort money based on their autonomous decision making to carry and raise a child. The rules were changed/created by your MP's and MPP's....Every man should demand male reproductive rights from their legislators ... Read Dr. Kruk's recent study which is now on Rob Nicholson's desk....Our present system regarding all situations including divorce only leads to mental/emotional/financial hardship for all including the children. However, it is a boon for lawyers who profit immensely from the current system and judges, who earn huge salaries to effectively ruin people's lives based upon their "learned" opinions.

How many people in this country are affected by the current laws?

Demand change from your legislators...otherwise, your life will be forever ruined by someone else's decision making....

[standing on the sidelines]

you do have a choice. you can just say no to sex. Like I mentioned before,but you do not seem to grasp the idea, do not have sex with someone unless you are 100% certain they will not get pregnant. If you do not do that then you live with the risk of unwanted pregnancy and the child that may result. To try and force a woman to get an abortion or raise a child on her own is not your right, it is closing the barn door after the the horses have already gotten out.

[midnightvampyr]

Interesting argument but not very well thought out....if the opportunity to profit from using a child as a pawn in a game of extortion is taken away, women will not be so promiscuous....this is not about whether to have sex or not, its a question as to whether someone has a choice to be a parent or not.....

[midnightvampyr]

To Standing On the Sidelines.....Having a child should be only for those who are in a committed relationship - married/common law. Those who are involved in a short term heterosexual relationship, or movie buddies, are not in a committed relationship. The sex act is by no means comparable to the seriousness of bringing a child into this world. This is where both people should have a say as to whether they want this responsibility and the financial, emotional and psychological demands it places that comes with it. To suggest that having sex is equivalent to having a child together is completely ludicrous and completely without merit, intelligence or common sense. To share parenting with someone who uses the child as a pawn to extort money from a person who did not want to have a child with her is equally ridiculous. It only opens up more psychological game playing and parental alienation opportunities for the extortiionist and her victims.

[standing on the sidelines]

Originally Posted by midnightvampyr

To Standing On the Sidelines.....Having a child should be only for those who are in a committed relationship - married/common law. Those who are involved in a short term heterosexual relationship, or movie buddies, are not in a committed relationship. The sex act is by no means comparable to the seriousness of bringing a child into this world. This is where both people should have a say as to whether they want this responsibility and the financial, emotional and psychological demands it places that comes with it. To suggest that having sex is equivalent to having a child together is completely ludicrous and completely without merit, intelligence or common sense. To share parenting with someone who uses the child as a pawn to extort money from a person who did not want to have a child with her is equally ridiculous. It only opens up more psychological game playing and parental alienation opportunities for the extortiionist and her victims.

try to grasp the concept. The end result of sex could be an unwanted pregnancy. Read my posts carefully. I have said that unless you are 100% sure that someone will not get pregnant, then that is a possibility everytime you have sex. It is common sense. Just like if you drink and drive there is always a possibility that you will either have an accident or get stopped by the cops. It is a chance that you take.

By the way calling me a "man-hater" in a PM is not acceptable. Just because I do not agree with you does not make me a man hater.

[midnightvampyr]

Once again...you just do not get it do you!!! It is a psychological game played by the woman documented in psychiatric journals....everyone has sex for pleasure...except you perhaps...its a means for her to extort and no different than holding a gun to someone's head and demanding money..in this case it is a child instead of a gun..you obviously must be benefitting financially from a similar situation or have unresolved sexual issues....

[midnightvampyr]

Kindly refrain from any more comments. You are bringing nothing new to the table. It is obvious to me that you are not only NO CHOICE for men but NO SEX either. Thank you.