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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-08-2016, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
to me its asshole behaviour on the mans part. He didn't want a pregnancy and didn't use a condom. Then expects the mother to have an abortion to clean up his "mistake"? Sounds like the type of man who likes to blame others for his mistakes and expects others to cover for him.

having an abortion isn't like getting a cut stitched up and you forget about it. Maybe its a case of owning up to your mistake and taking the consequences.
I agree it isn't ideal on the man's part - I am all for being responsible but it seems like premeditated asshole behavior on the woman's part to say:

"Hey, your problem that you didn't cover up - and even though I could take this pill to end this, I am going to NOT take it and entrap you in a financial commitment for the next 25 years + my kid isn't going to have his bio father around for sure..."

Who wins with that attitude?
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Old 05-09-2016, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Links17 View Post
I was under the impression it is a matter of taking a pill to get an abortion...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mifepristone
(with side effects understandably..)

So basically its take a pill vs the other option I outlined earlier (bring in a child to this world who is unloved by his father and will be an imposition for the 25 years on somebody who happened to have sex with you)

Not sure what you are all talking about?
there is the morning after pill but that has to be taken within a certain amount of time.

You seem to think the man has no responsibility what so ever.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2016, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
Where is the whole aspect of personal responsibility in all this?
The irony of a woman talking about personal responsibility all while insisting that a man has to financially provide for her child is sometimes too much to bear.

I know that sex is evil, and men need to be punished for having sex, and women are hapless victims who generally get raped every time they have sex, but a $100,000 fine seems a little excessive.
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:12 AM
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Yeah it's okay for the woman to say "don't worry about a thing" and go on and pay $300,000.00 for the upbringing of the love child just so the man can go on and sew his oats over the world.

It's about accountability and responsibility. If one doesn't want to pay a speeding ticket then one obeys the laws and drives within the speed limit. Same simple logic applies to parenting a child: don't dip your wick unless you are prepared to pay for the outcome.


I recall when I was young I dated a fellow for a period of 8 or 9 months. I had my own apartment and a good job at the time. I recall it was around Christmastime that the relationship abruptly ended. I was devastated. No phone call to me or anything. He just quite calling me. I didn't know where he lived (as when we were together he would come to my place). I remember thinking that he was so considerate about this.

One day I went with colleagues to a popular downtown pub after work. I saw my "boyfriend" there with a few of his work mates. He was aloof but friends were quite cordial to me and invited me to join them for a drink. I noticed he had a ring on his finger (which he never had before). To my horror I then discovered that he was married and had 3 young children! Now what would have happened if I were to discover I was pregnant before I found out about his marital status? I obviously dodged a very big bullet. Years later I saw the same guy out wining and dining other young girls. Funny thing is that I most definitely recall this guy being a very devout Catholic. He never once asked if I was on the pill (which might have led me to think that he was in love with me and should I become pregnant it would be a good thing). I wonder how many children he now has?

Had I ended up pregnant I would have likely been accused of trying to "trap" the guy. Nothing would have been further from the truth.

Last edited by arabian; 05-09-2016 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 05-09-2016, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Yeah it's okay for the woman to say "don't worry about a thing" and go on and pay $300,000.00 for the upbringing of the love child just so the man can go on and sew his oats over the world.

It's about accountability and responsibility. If one doesn't want to pay a speeding ticket then one obeys the laws and drives within the speed limit. Same simple logic applies to parenting a child: don't dip your wick unless you are prepared to pay for the outcome.
Two questions:

1) Should mothers be financially responsible for children they give up for adoption?

2) Would you support a safe haven law in Canada? If we had such a law, should we track the mothers down and make them pay child support to the state or any future adoptive parents?
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Old 05-09-2016, 10:10 AM
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An abstract of a paper.... Coerced Parenthood as Family Policy

Coerced Parenthood as Family Policy: Feminism, the Moral Agency of Women, and Men's 'Right to Choose' by Lisa Lucile Owens :: SSRN
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 05-09-2016, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Two questions:

1) Should mothers be financially responsible for children they give up for adoption?

2) Would you support a safe haven law in Canada? If we had such a law, should we track the mothers down and make them pay child support to the state or any future adoptive parents?
1) no. If you give up a child for a legal adoption you give up rights to child and person adopting child assumes responsibilities for the child.

2) I think you confuse abandoning a child with adoption? In any case, if you go after one parent it would seem to me to be only fair to go after the other parent as well.
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Old 05-09-2016, 11:05 AM
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Interesting paper... although I disagree with the part about sperm donor and consentual sexual partner. I also strongly feel that "the state" should not pay for child when a biological father exists. Bringing in the argument of sperm donor is a stretch IMO. When one donates sperm they do so knowing that they have absolutely no financial responsibility of the resulting child and usually they are paid for donating sperm.

I agree that "A man has no business dictating whether a woman has an abortion—even if he is the biological father of the fetus.103 To grant this “right” would indeed be
a most egregious affront to the commonly understood definition of person,
privacy, or liberty.104 Therefore, a male who has fathered a fetus should
not be given the choice as to whether the fetus should be carried to term or
aborted. As an essential fact of biology, he gave up this choice when he
voluntarily engaged in sexual acts with his female partner."

I will possibly change my opinion the day that men carry fetus for 9 months.
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Old 05-09-2016, 12:55 PM
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I am against abortion although not particularly religious. I just believe that it is a human life at the time of conception and only certain circumstances would for me anyway warrant an abortion. One of these would be the mother's health, either physical or mental. If having the child adversely affects the mother's health, then my personal belief is that her health trumps the unborn child.

In terms of why a woman would choose to have the child knowing the father wanted nothing to do with the child, well, that is as unique as each individual situation.

I was once faced with the thought that I might be pregnant while fairly young(18). I realized at that time that I in no way wanted this guy to be the father of my child. While it turned out I wasn't pregnant, I did learn some important lessons.( and broke up with him)

One, never have sex unless you are willing to have a child as nothing but abstinence is foolproof.

Two, only have sex with a man that you could imagine as the father of your baby.

This is the advice I give to teen girls I am close enough to have that sort of conversation with.

Three was personal, and that was that I would have the child and not abort or give it up for adoption; that situation, while brief, caused me to examine my beliefs.
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Old 05-09-2016, 02:25 PM
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Just checking to see if this link is real or if I am just having a cartoon moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCGEUDa8hB0
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