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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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Old 04-06-2017, 01:19 PM
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CanLII Connects - Better Alternatives to Legal Aid Increases

An interesting read. Includes a reference to our favourite forum case . Discusses the problems with legal aid, and vaguely hints at some solutions.
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Old 04-06-2017, 02:40 PM
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Excellent article!

I particuarly like this one:

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mandatory open mediation by a domestic violence trained professional, who could provide the court a report indicating the presence or absence of this risk factor, and remove this dispute from being dragged through family courts. If the parties continued with these issues before the family courts, full indemnity costs could be imposed.
Guaranteeing costs prior to nonsense, in general, would be a great step forward. Sure, you can continue to go forward saying that parent x did 123 but, if you are found to be full of shit you are going to pay the entire legal bill of the other party.
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Old 04-07-2017, 03:52 PM
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On the flip side, if the domestic violence expert did in fact identify serious risk factors, the court would be more empowered to stop an abusive litigant from using the court system as a weapon to further reign terror on his victims. They might also be able to put measures into place to prevent the murder of spouses and children during family court litigation.
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Old 04-10-2017, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
On the flip side, if the domestic violence expert did in fact identify serious risk factors, the court would be more empowered to stop an abusive litigant from using the court system as a weapon to further reign terror on his victims. They might also be able to put measures into place to prevent the murder of spouses and children during family court litigation.
Do you have any statistics on how often MURDER occurs during a court proceeding in family law? Most of the statistics I have seen on partner murder occur well before the family court infrastructure is ever leveraged.

Also, legal proceedings are very structured and in general do not empower anyone to be abusive. Can you give an example of how someone would use the court proceedings as a "weapon"?
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:30 PM
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I personally do not have any statistics but they are available from the death review committee report on domestic homicide in Canada.

Three cases that come to mind are: 1. The Quebec cardiologist who stabbed his children to death in the middle of an acrimonious divorce when he got unsupervised access and 2 cases in Oshawa, Ontario ( both case managed by justice Scott).
2. One murder occurred in 1996 where justice Scott granted the father unsupervised access to his son and the father doused the child with gasoline, set him on fire and killed him
3. Another case overseen by justice Scott in 2015 or 2016 in which a father murdered his child as a direct result of her ignoring evidence and ordering unsupervised access. This case did make the papers.

The point is that spouses and children do get murdered during litigation. Women have also murdered their children and spouses.
Domestic homicide does occur before, during and after litigation. It is one of the most predictable and therefor preventable homicides.
Either spouse can use the family court system as a weapon to hurt their spouse, alienate the children or financially ruin the other spouse. Family court allows this to happen by virtue of rare and slow consequences for such behaviour.

Family court takes an already dangerous situation and escalates it even further. Instead of stopping abusive behaviour by a litigant, judges allow it to continue until
the damage is finite. By the time a judge actually imposes consequences for abusive behaviour it's often too late to reverse the damage.
This applies equally to men or women.

Family court litigation is one of the most horrific, painful, life altering and stressful events anyone can go through. Even otherwise rational and sane parents can find it crazy making. The stakes are huge.
Divorce can bring out depression and desperation and hopelessness in even a relatively high functioning person...
But...
... there are warning signs for those cases that risk crossing the line...judges need to be held accountable, to a higher standard than they are now.

Why is nobody lobbying to have justice Scott removed? Two children died as a direct result of her orders...if she were a surgeon, she would have been sued or made to take domestic violence training at the very least.

Domestic violence specialists in doing a mandatory evaluation would be best able to identify those 1 out of 10 high conflict cases that pose a real
Threat of harm or fatality to spouses and children. At the same time they could tease apart false allegations from actual verifiable abuse. They would also be able to identify alienating parental behaviour and suggest remedies for all the above before it's too late.

Last edited by Stillbreathing; 04-10-2017 at 09:43 PM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
I personally do not have any statistics but they are available from the death review committee report on domestic homicide in Canada.

Three cases that come to mind are: 1. The Quebec cardiologist who stabbed his children to death in the middle of an acrimonious divorce when he got unsupervised access and 2 cases in Oshawa, Ontario ( both case managed by justice Scott).
2. One murder occurred in 1996 where justice Scott granted the father unsupervised access to his son and the father doused the child with gasoline, set him on fire and killed him
3. Another case overseen by justice Scott in 2015 or 2016 in which a father murdered his child as a direct result of her ignoring evidence and ordering unsupervised access. This case did make the papers.

The point is that spouses and children do get murdered during litigation. Women have also murdered their children and spouses.
Domestic homicide does occur before, during and after litigation. It is one of the most predictable and therefor preventable homicides.
Either spouse can use the family court system as a weapon to hurt their spouse, alienate the children or financially ruin the other spouse. Family court allows this to happen by virtue of rare and slow consequences for such behaviour.

Family court takes an already dangerous situation and escalates it even further. Instead of stopping abusive behaviour by a litigant, judges allow it to continue until
the damage is finite. By the time a judge actually imposes consequences for abusive behaviour it's often too late to reverse the damage.
This applies equally to men or women.

Family court litigation is one of the most horrific, painful, life altering and stressful events anyone can go through. Even otherwise rational and sane parents can find it crazy making. The stakes are huge.
Divorce can bring out depression and desperation and hopelessness in even a relatively high functioning person...
But...
... there are warning signs for those cases that risk crossing the line...judges need to be held accountable, to a higher standard than they are now.

Why is nobody lobbying to have justice Scott removed? Two children died as a direct result of her orders...if she were a surgeon, she would have been sued or made to take domestic violence training at the very least.

Domestic violence specialists in doing a mandatory evaluation would be best able to identify those 1 out of 10 high conflict cases that pose a real
Threat of harm or fatality to spouses and children. At the same time they could tease apart false allegations from actual verifiable abuse. They would also be able to identify alienating parental behaviour and suggest remedies for all the above before it's too late.


I agree that family court is a joke and takes way to long to come to an end, I agree with all you have stated except the fact that family court causes someone to murder their children. There is NO excuse for that. Whether you lost your children through litigation or not murdering your children is NEVER the answer. You cannot blame the court system for that. The blame for murdering children is placed on the murderer. There are many stories in the news of people who murder but friends and neighbours all describe these people as friendly, functioning members of society. One would never expect them to murder their children or family.

Look at how many false allegations are thrown around in family court. There would be a lot less parents seeing their children if judges ruled on what a parent is accusing the other of. If a parent doesn't present a danger to the children then a judge should award unsupervised access. Usually people who are capable of murder are mentally ill. The problem just isn't the court system it is the lack of assistance when it comes to mental illness. Anyone going through family court should have to attend counselling throughout. There is such a stigma but on mental illness that many people suffer in silence until they finally snap.


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Old 04-11-2017, 09:32 AM
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Family court does not cause someone to murder their children no more than a doctor causes you to die. What I'm saying is that family court ignores evidence of actual risk factors predictive of domestic homicide due to the ignorance of judges, lawyers, OCL's and parenting assessor. All because they are not educated in regards to domestic violence. Yes there are a vast amount of false allegations flying but that is no excuse for them to paint everybody with that brush. Especially when there are very specific risk factors involved with domestic homicide. Studies after the fact have identified these factors and identified that judges and court professionals have ignored them. These risk factors are not present in cases if false allegations.
If a medical doctor can be sued or held accountable for poor judgement when treating you with the result of harm or death to you, why can't judges be held accountable?
Ignorance is no excuse for disobeying the law, therefor judicial ignorance of the risk factors in domestic homicide should be no excuse for making orders that result in removing controls that allow a high risk litigant to harm their spouse or children.

In these instances judges, like doctors should bare some of the blame for the consequences due to the exercising of poor judgement which resulted in harm.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillbreathing View Post
Family court does not cause someone to murder their children no more than a doctor causes you to die. What I'm saying is that family court ignores evidence of actual risk factors predictive of domestic homicide due to the ignorance of judges, lawyers, OCL's and parenting assessor. All because they are not educated in regards to domestic violence. Yes there are a vast amount of false allegations flying but that is no excuse for them to paint everybody with that brush. Especially when there are very specific risk factors involved with domestic homicide. Studies after the fact have identified these factors and identified that judges and court professionals have ignored them. These risk factors are not present in cases if false allegations.
If a medical doctor can be sued or held accountable for poor judgement when treating you with the result of harm or death to you, why can't judges be held accountable?
Ignorance is no excuse for disobeying the law, therefor judicial ignorance of the risk factors in domestic homicide should be no excuse for making orders that result in removing controls that allow a high risk litigant to harm their spouse or children.

In these instances judges, like doctors should bare some of the blame for the consequences due to the exercising of poor judgement which resulted in harm.


Please provide an example of what you would assume is negligence by a judge that caused someone to murder their children... what factors would have to be proven for a parent to be considered a risk and how would those factors be proven?


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