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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2009, 08:56 PM
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Default Interview with FRO

Just an update for those who are interested. & 2 points

-We finally were given the Order for Costs, Court has given our lawyer costs. Great! Now to get the money out of them, Our lawyer has made attempts but we are still waiting.

-Tomorrow we will be having a telephone conversation with the Director at FRO. They have arranged the time. We intend to be bringing up many mishandled cases at FRO. Put them on the line for some answers.

If there is anyone else that has questions that they would like raised please reply or PM us here and we will try our best.

Constitution1 & AtALoss
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:42 AM
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I have plenty of questions I'd like to raise. But I know that you probably thought of them already. ;-) But just in case (and to vent a litle)...

- How can they call themselves the family "responsibility" office when they hold zero responsibility in their own actions?
- How do they feel about being ranked in the top 5 most complained about government agencies in Ontario? (From the start, too!)
- How do they feel about the countless legal cases against them by payors and recipients that have been wronged by their actions (or lack thereof) and never pardoned?
- How do they feel being the cause of countless suicides by payors (mostly fathers) whose bank accounts have been drained and who were driven to poverty and dispair, having no good future prospects, and deciding to end their life because they could no longer support themselves... all because they continued to garnish their accounts based on old or terminated orders?
- Why is it so difficult to get any sort of assistance or answers from the CSR's and FRO agents?

Oh, the list can go on, and on, and on...

Thanks for the update AtALoss! Can't wait to hear about the interview! (Will it be taped/recorded?)
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:06 AM
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Most of our questions are going to be along the same line.

One other that we have is for some time now we have been trying to find out just who the Director is. It is amazing all the names we have been given and just how well they protect this person. The one who we were told is calling claims to be the Director. I have paper work signed by one that claims. An MMP confirms this yet when you get FRO on the phone they say someone else. Think they should know who is thier boss.

So much for the accountability act and transparency in government.
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Old 07-24-2009, 01:23 PM
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Default Good luck pulling back the curtain....hopefully the wizard..is a real person

I hope you get some straight answers but doubt you will. My ex has filed a cross motion and thus we are delayed again until October. What a crock family law is. Delay, delay, delay and laugh all the way to the bank. In her motion she is demanding the FRO enforce a number of things. This scared the bejesus out of me. If they get involved and screw it up, it will be a nightmare to sort out.

Hopefully you will post the salient points, but i believe the "director" or wizard of oz will just stone wall you. At least pull back the curtain and expose the wizard as the fraud that he/she is. Probably a political apoointee no doubt.
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Old 07-24-2009, 06:36 PM
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I hope many have read the blog and have seen the interview on Global TV.

Blog... Richard's space - Windows Live
If you just read the Cost Endorsement for Default Dispute, it is quite enlightening. Main point in the endorsement is on several occasions the Judge said that several points should have been patently clear to the Director and thus opening the door wide when it comes to just who is liable in this case. (As we had thought all along)

It appears that the interview is no longer available on Global's web page, least I cant find it anymore. I am making efforts to obtain it and possibly post it to the blog. Will keep you posted.

As for today's conversation with the Director it was truely something. Basically they had very little to say for themselves. In the next day or two I will post what happened. Did get a bit of trueth from them though.
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Old 07-24-2009, 09:27 PM
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Default The Gist of the Conversation

Well it was quite the one sided phone call due to the fact that I was straight forward with my evidence, the phone went dead. Many of times I thought to say are you girls still alive, do you want me to call 911.
Let me give you some examples.

1) How do you lose $43,000.00 of child support and then trying to have the payor arrested for having his child support up to date. (hello are you there) no comment.

2) How is it that in my case 005XXXX the recipient filed a letter of termination on December 01 2004 it was only posted on the Director's Statement of arrears on July 06 2005.
Once again no comment. (are you girls still alive)?

3) I asked the Director how she reached the alleged arrears in these cases, and then asked them if they matched the Divorce Agreements to the terminating events and then checked to see if the arrears where justified. (no comment)

4) I mentioned to them throughout, the court procedure Mr. Fournier kept on saying that he had to check with FRO in order to make any decisions. The Director finally spoke. Imagine that. She said that a lawyer from thier legal team was assigned to several cases and that Mr. Fournier would have to check with the FRO legal team in order to continue with his case. She speaks and hangs herself again. (what an art)

4) During a break in court in 2007 thier Lawyer George Fournier and I got into a pretty heated dabate. Mr. fournier said do you think I WOULD TAKE THE TIME TO READ THE 2500 PAGES OF EVIDENCE ,THAT TRASH. Second of all when I MENTIONED THAT IN THE ENDORSEMENT OF JUSTICE RENAULT AND JUSTICE MCLEOD, ADVISED THEM THAT THERE WAS MORE THAN ONE TERMINATING EVENT THAT DID TERMINATE CHILD SUPPORT IN MY CASE, THEY REFUSED TO AKNOWLEDGE THESE FACTS.
Furthermore, I read the final endorsement of Justice Keast and made reference to the part where he says that the Director had a patent on stupidity, and that he didn't understand how she was led down this path. (once again complete silence)

5) Why did the Director refuse to give me the letter of termination after going through the freedom of information act. (no comment)

6) I mentioned when I tried to go ahead with the SEB program and mentioned that the Community Social Services blocked my paperwork after taking all the Courses, Mrs. Margo Carson piped up and said "what is the SEB program". I informed her that I WAS GOING TO START MY AIR CONDITIONING COMPANY AGAIN AND THAT THE self employment benefit program is assitance through E.I. that gives you one year of E.I. benefits and your coach that is assigned to you helps you with your business plan and helps you to get grants through the Goverment. Mrs. Margo Carson assured me that she would look into this and get back to me. (we shall see)

7) Even before I started the Director assured me that she looked at my case and she confirmed that my Lawyer's fees where finalized and that the check would be released any day now. She also confirmed that my account was down to zero, but then yet why won't she hand over the final statement clearly showing this? She offered no comment as to why.

8) When I mentioned the fact that the Director committed FRAUD three times from DEC 2008 to March 2009 due to them faulsely reporting to EQUIFAX that I still owed $3500.00, after getting a stop garnishee from Justice Canada, a stop garnishee from the Ontario Court, and and stop garnishee from COMMUNITY SOCIAL SERVICES (FRO) they still reported me to owe $3500.00. Mrs Margo Carson spoke up and said THAT FRO DID WRITE A LETTER TO EQUIFAX. I TOLD HER, EVEN AFTER THAT FACT THEY STILL REPORTED ME OWING APROXIMATELY 1500.00 DOLLARS THAN 400.00 DOLLARS. IN FACT I HAD TO GET THE FRO TO WRITE THREE NEW LETTERS AND THAT ONE EVEN STATED THAT THE FRO COMMITTED FRAUD AND ANY DEROGATORY REPORTING ON MY BUREAU SHOULD BE DISREGARDED. (THE PHONE WENT SILENT ONCE AGAIN.)
She said that they did communicate with Equifax but then yet I told her I spoke to MR. BRULAY AT EQUIFAX AND HAD TO GIVE HER THE PROPER NUMBER. (1 514 493 XXXX)
Through out this process with Equifax I was the one that had to dictate the proper wording to FRO personnel in order to get this done.

9) I mentioned Mr. PHILLIP AIELLO a manager at the FRO was fully aware of the fact of the termination letter. This was confirmed in a phone conversation with Mr. Aiello on November 20 2008. (no comment the phone went silent).

10) I made a suggestion to meet with them and go over many more facts and perhaps make suggestions to make some real changes. The Director clearly stated that there would be no such meeting. (I guess the welfare of Ontario Children isn't important enough.)

11) I did make it perfectly clear to them that I WILL NOT STOP AND THAT WE WILL BE BRINGING THE DIRECTOR AND THE RECIPIENT TO COURT AND THEN THE CROWN. IF NECESSARY I WOULD USE THE ACCOUNTABILITY ACT AND BRING EVERY PHONE OPERATOR AND EVERY PERSON AT THE FRO THAT EVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS FILE TILL THE LAWS ARE CHANGED AND THAT CHANGE COMES ABOUT IN THE FRO.

12) I also brought up the fact that they have yet to pay me back any money that I have overpaid in support since each of my children turning 18. They still remained very insistant that I would have to sue the recipient. I also raised the fact at this point that this was contrary to what the Obmbudsman and my Lawyer Mr Joseph feel. They claimed would have to sue the recipient.

I come away feeling from all the silence that they where very concerned and that they didn't realise how good my facts were, but then yet very disappointed. In the fact that they really didn't care about anything or the law. The only thing that they were interested in was remaining above the Law, ARROGANT ATTITUDE.

I also asked why it was so hard to contact higher ups in FRO and why is there no disclosure of names or numbers to do so. I told her of how I could not find on thier own organizational chart no mention of a Director or the person who I was told this was. I was also told perviously that this person is no longer at FRO and not since spring 2007. This fact is not even updated in the directory that is held by all persons in government. She claimed that she would update this information. Aparently there is also no longer a position of Executive Director at FRO. It is now the Administrator of Family Responsibility Office.

I also raised the callousness by which thier employees treat payors and recipients alike and that I felt this was reprehensible. In my case comment was made by a phone agent about 5 years ago "We give a **** if you die, we just want our money"...... silence again. They knew this to be true.

They have left themselves wide open for a major law suit and the fact it will be very easy to sue them.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-25-2009, 02:20 PM
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Default All too familiar

I just found your information and could easily add to your information. I had them advise my employer arrears of $2900 in January 2008, then suddenly change it to $46,000 in October. When I asked for any explanation, they refused. Asked for an account statement, and they want to charge. I have refused to pay on principal and present my own figures in Court. Told the judge he could purchase the statement if he didn't want to use my figures.

I have no use for the FRO and it is great to see someonme has actulally made it past the incompetent CSRs.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:34 PM
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Hello John Jeffery,

I would like to speak with you in more detail if you are willing. Like yourself My spouse stopeed paying on principle. The youngest was 20 and a parent herself at the time. That was 2004.
Frankly I am amazed that in a matter of months your arrears jumped by so much. As I have mentioned before and is our lawyers thought as well, of persons in situations such as ours need to ban together against FRO. Thier attitude is alone your story cant be true but if we get dozens or more that is a little harder to ignore.
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Old 07-26-2009, 12:45 PM
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Default Fro

AtALoss,

Would like to chat with you sometime.

Find it is sometimes hard to be clear here, but hope I get the main idea across. I refuse to pay for an accounting statement on principal.

Problem with the increase was that the Orders as written were not as clear as was intended. The FRO goes by exactly what is written, and even using a Transcript to prove what was said and intended does not matter.

I guess "technically" they are right, but someone needs to use some logic and common sense. They claim to only look out for the child's best interest, but can not see how their actions can ruin a parent, which ultimately effects the child.

I'm at jdjeffery@hotmail.com if you want to chat.
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Old 07-27-2009, 09:21 AM
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I think this is great that you guys are fighting so hard and making your fight public. Perhaps in doing so, more people will come forward and hold the FRO responsible for their actions. The FRO acts like they are above our fundamental laws, long entrenched before there was anything like the FRO. I am currently fighting with them myself. I am currently employed in a federal law making department and, I have a real issue with the FRO's audacity to give direction to one federal lawmaking authority while also not following their own direction. I have threaten legal action against them on this basis. My issue revolves around their "Voluntary Arrears Payment Schedule" which I entered into with them. It seems that they are above contract law, that they can change the terms and act contrary to the contract that they entered into which clearly states; it is binding on both the Payor and the Director. Be aware that when entering into this contract with them, they have no intension of honoring their obligations, they will lie, tell you they are acting under their "Arrears Enforcement Act" when in fact, I see nothing that allows them to contract in the first place. This is important because, it demonstrates that the FRO operates above and beyond their legal authority (their own act) and when it does so, it breaks their own laws, plus other laws such as contractual law which when doing so, can lead to damages.

Although I am early in my fight with them, I have a manager from the FRO calling me. I have no intension of talking with them, it is obvious they are a little preturbed about my correspondence with them and, I am sure if they didn't see this as a stinky bag of poo poo, they wouldn't be calling me back to begin with. I am not interested in any money from the FRO, this fight I am having with them is strictly on principle.

If there is anything I can do to have the FRO accountable like every other publicly funded institution, please lmk.

Good luck Constitution1 & AtALoss...

Best Regards
SillyMe
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