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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-06-2006, 01:31 PM
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Why the laws aren't on a case by case basis. They don't seem to take into account the past or anything. You can be a drug dealer and and inattentive mother/father, and if you look better in court and have a better lawyer you get your kids, no matter what you're character is like. It's not right. Kids should get more of a say, you should have psycological testing, more than just the cut and dry, what is supposed to be fairness. It's not. Kids know what they want, they know who's been there and who hasn't. If you haven't seen your children, or even wanted to see your children for 10 years (of your OWN doing) and then suddenly you, for whatever reason, do, the courts will grat you that right. You give up on your kids you have NO rights to them what so ever. The legal system needs a good looking over. Lawyers need to start caring about the children, not the almighty dollar.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:02 PM
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w/ohope,

Just about in ever jurisdiction the courts use the best interest test to determine incidents of custody and access of a child.

Custody and access is the child's right not the parent's. People seem to presume that it is a parental right.

Courts will often accommodate an absent parent into the child's life due mainly because it is the child's right to have a meaningful relationship with same.

It is better to have a mediocre parent than no parent at all.

There is no law that compels a parent to be a parent to a child.

A custodial parent has no right whatsoever to determine the extent of the relationship between the child and the other parent. Many attempt to sway the courts opinion by citing bad character, criminal, drug dealer etc. This is mudslinging. It only questions ones own character and motives especially if the allegations are unfounded. This strategy often fails.

If the child is in harm emotionally or physically then yes the child should be protected and no access should occur.
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Old 03-06-2006, 11:18 PM
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Hey...

Kids are kids and they bounce (and I don't mean off walls) ... they don't care if mom or dad is ignoring them now... and now they are not.... at the end of the day it's still "their mom" or their "dad".... warts and all.

Well that's my opinion with the kids I know so I'm no expert trust me. But you would like to hope that the courts know somewhat of what they are doing, but I agree.... everything in regards to the children should be known by the judge... or who ever it's only fair.

You've got to think that there is always

your story, his story and somewhere down the middle is the truth

and we have to believe that our justice system works that way or we are all scre&*d.

O and I do believe that children after the age 12? can decide if they want to see the other parent or not. Check with your lawyer and check with your child, if your child wants to see the other parent... let them form their own opinion... If you've had 10 years without the other parent ... then you have to trust your child to make that decision itself ... without pressure

But hey that's just me. Good Luck.
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Old 03-07-2006, 09:55 AM
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First of all, i wanna say it's absolutly NOT mud slinging if it's a fact and you can back it up with fact. I would never say that to my child, that's not right, i'm not vindictive. My child HAS parents a mother and a father that have loved her through everything. First steps, first words, first fights, first sleep overs, first nightmares, first hockey pratice, first everything. This situation with the biological parent has become confusing and hurtful to my child. She doesn't want to know her real father, she has one. You can't just bust into a childs life and say "Hi, I'm your dad." You need to EARN that title it's not something you just have. The courts don't seem to care because biology is everything. It shouldn't be. If you abandon your children and never ever call or give them a second thought ever in your life except when your new girlfriend thinks perhaps you should get in touch with your kids, you don't deserve it. We never moved, he knew where we were nothing changed. So it's not like he couldn't find us. We have a family. This isn't right.
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Old 03-07-2006, 10:15 AM
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Hey guys

Sometimes you just have to grit your teeth and hope for the best. If your daughter is at an age that she can decide for herself, let her and don't force her to see the parent. and is it not better that no matter how difficult it has been for you, think of how difficult it must be for her. If his "new" g-friend has got him to start thinking about his daughter then maybe this is a good thing.

Sometimes we all do things and saythings that we wish we could take back and we can't. Roll the dice and let them fall.

You must be very proud of her and I know it must have been very hard for you over the years, but you have stood by here then and you have to now. She may have a "dad", but you've proven to her time and again that you are her "real" dad, and if you've instilled any of yourself in her (which I am sure u have) then you won't have a problem with her.

Let her fly with your teachings, let her spread her wings, and be the person you brought her up to be.

And if you don't want to lose her then I suggest that you don't bad mouth her dad where she can hear you, she would not like someone to bad mouth you because you are her dad, the other guy, he's a wanna be dad and unfortunately for all involved this will be a difficult time.

Stand with her now and be strong for her, encourage her to see her dad, cause if he is a real scum bag she won't want to keep seeing him, despite a court order.

Let her decide and don't force her to do anything she does not want to.
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Old 03-21-2006, 04:14 PM
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So the courts have declared that my childs father gets regular visitation even though she has expressed that she does NOT want to go and feels unsafe around this stranger.

Now let me clarify, she goes to sleepovers and jr dances and is not a "homebody" or anything. She's going to be quite the independant woman. We had a long talk about it (a rational and truthful one, i kept my opinions to myself) and she still does not want to go. They want him to pay child support, i dont' want his money, they want to interrupt our lives and traditions for a complete stranger. Tell me how this is right.
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Old 04-17-2006, 04:15 PM
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It may not be right. I don't know how old your child is, but if she doesn't want to see him and is forced to, there's a problem. Now, what the problem actually is could be a different matter. I've got a niece and nephew who're living through a divorce of their parents; they're 7 and 8. Many times when they're supposed to be spending time with their Dad, one of them will decide they don't want to go for that visit. Because of things both of the kids have said to me, I'm sure it's because their Mother is telling them to 'keep secrets' about her own activities, and telling them BS about the father's family. In that situation, I think the kids don't 'rule the roost'; they always have a good time with their father, and I believe they only object to going because their mother has made them feel they are being disloyal to her if they do. I'm sure you're telling the truth about your keeping your opinions to yourself, simply because people who care only about their own agenda don't actively look for sites like this and ask the kinds of questions you are. However, children are so much more perceptive than we give them credit for; is there a chance the child has a 'deep-down' desire to know the father? If there's even a chance of that, it must be provided; it could be the child is telling you there's no desire to see him because she's feeling the stress and chaos of the situation, and wanting to show her loyalty to you.

That said, let me jump right in and say that there is NEVER a circumstance that warrants a child's safety being put in jeopardy! Yes, it is the child's right to have a relationship with the other parent, and that right should supercede anything the parents have to say if they are "mud-slinging", but I disagree with LV's stance of:

"A custodial parent has no right whatsoever to determine the extent of the relationship between the child and the other parent."

Even though he follows with, "Many attempt to sway the courts opinion by citing bad character, criminal, drug dealer etc. This is mudslinging. It only questions ones own character and motives especially if the allegations are unfounded. This strategy often fails."

If a custodial parent cites "bad character, criminal, drug dealer, etc", I think that falls under the category of relevant. Not proof, mind you, but something worthy of investigating. Bad character is tough to prove, and at times, probably isn't even relevant. But if you've got one parent who's got criminal charges and/or is a known drug dealer (proved by charges), that MUST be considered! The defining factor is that you HAVE to have some evidence of sorts, even if it's only several witnesses willing to testify or sign affidavits. Just like everything else, accusations are useless without corroboration.

Last edited by sasha1; 04-17-2006 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:35 PM
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The key issue is that your child is still a child and has no capacity to make a significant decision as severing a relationship with the other parent. Hence the reason most likely the courts have supported the relationship between the child and other parent. Perhaps the child is of this view just to please you. Moreover, has your child given a reason that has merit and is justified as to why they don't want to see this parent and have no desire to have a relationship?

As an example, If you child wakes up one morning and decides they don't want to go to school anymore will you support this. It appears that if your child is viewing this opinion now, and if the reason has very little merit, have you considered counseling for the child to perhaps come to reason with this view. A child will change their views many times over the course of their infancy and adolescents.

In regards to the child support, this is an independent issue all in itself and has nothing to do with access and contact. Child support is the child's right to receive same. It is generally issued to the custodial parent as the child lacks the capacity to manage this money and generally the custodial parent will use this to buy clothes and necessary items in the month the child will require.
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Old 04-17-2006, 06:47 PM
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In regards to bad character, criminal, drug dealer, there has to be convictions not just charges. Police lay the charges, a court will convict after hearing the evidence. Police issue speeding tickets which in essence is being charged for a violation of a provincial act or statute. Would this make you a criminal?

Innocent until proven guilty.

Even OJ got off the criminal charges however he was found liable in civil proceedings. After paying for all the legal fees in the criminal proceedings, he had very little assets left to pay for the judgment awarded in the civil proceedings.

Another point that should be noted is that OJ is a parent and despite his background of criminal proceedings, he has a meaningful relationship with his children.
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Old 04-17-2006, 08:58 PM
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I would hope that if criminal charges of any nature were laid, especially involving drugs the police would have a duty to notify CAS for a complete investigation. The access centers are full of parents which have criminal charges against them and are only granted supervised access through the courts until their criminal charges are resolved. Judges usually rule on the air of caution if charges are pending.

As for OJ, how must his children feel, thinking their father murdered their mother.
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