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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2014, 01:11 PM
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Once.is.enough - probably a good idea for you to stick to topics you have some knowledge or experience with (you're out of your league IMO spouting off about SS).

Yes I was married for a long time and a business partner for equally as long. I have also worked throughout my marriage and now do indeed support myself. I also financed our business for many many years and bought two of our homes.
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Old 05-12-2014, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Once.is.enough View Post
I like that analogy. So if you divide a bankrupt business you get nothing. If your marriage is bankrupt end it and each partner supports themselves.
Who said my 'business' was bankrupt. I'm full aware that you can't get blood from a stone, I'll be happy with my 50% of whatever there is thank you .

Now back to the original question - do you think that self-reppers are crippling the court system? Or is it the lawyers themselves who are hogging court time with useless motions and delay tactics ect.?
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Old 05-12-2014, 02:34 PM
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I think it might be either.

While my ex was not very well organized during his short time without a lawyer, I have observed many self-represented people in court who were extremely effective. I've heard judge's compliment many self-represented people on their ability to present their issues in an organized, well-though out manner.

Lawyers are business people. If they can make money by keeping the parties fighting then I suppose there are some lawyers out there who do that. Pity. As a former business owner I know and appreciate the value of referrals.
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Old 05-12-2014, 05:13 PM
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I think if adults have to support themselves upon mairage breakdown you would see less need of a lawyer or the need to self rep freeing up court time.
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Old 05-12-2014, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Once.is.enough View Post
I think if adults have to support themselves upon mairage breakdown you would see less need of a lawyer or the need to self rep freeing up court time.
Would it be possible for you to get off this SS obsession of yours? Honestly there are other issues to contend with, division of assets, custody problems, pensions etc.

Do you think that people need lawyers ONLY for spousal support?

I would really appreciate it if you could manage to stick to the original question and not hijack this thread with your repetitive banter. If not open a thread of your own please.
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Old 05-12-2014, 08:39 PM
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I was sticking to topic. Money is one of the factors leading to litigation for both represented and self represented litigants. I would argue it probably plays one of the largest factors. By removing one factor of litigation you free up court time.

I don't think it's too much of a leap to suggest an adult be responsible financially for themselves. I'm not looking to pick a fight on the validity of ss.

I'm sorry if you FEEL I don't have a point but I'm not attempting to hijack your thread.
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Old 05-12-2014, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Once.is.enough View Post
I gave my opinion. You don't like it. Fair enough
Your opinion is just that... yours, and clearly not what the law states.
I too was married for many years and I too receive substantial SS.
I am employed after being out of the work force for well over 20 years and the success of my x is clearly a lot of my doing, as now his practice is sold and his financials are falling apart, quick and fast.
I did not go to trial but went through binding arbitration.
Deal with SS, there are rules and your opinion clearly holds no weight with me or the family law system and thank G-d for that.
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Old 05-12-2014, 10:12 PM
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Back to the topic of your thread Janibel. I really think there is something wrong with the initial part of people's first encounter with the courts. I have been following the one fellow's thread who has been denied access to his young daughter due to the allegations of his STBX. I particularly enjoy reading Mr. Toronto's posts as he outlines the strategies and steps involved in proceeding from an emergency motion to a case conference. This is an excellent example of where, in my opinion, things go terribly wrong and become a much bigger mess than they should be.

One of Mr. Toronto's posts was quite insightful where he says that judge's use a form of abbreviated code words when passing on a file to another judge. Now the father has to jump through hoops and wait and wait and wait to go to the next step. If the father is being denied access to his daughter why is the evidence not presented at this time? At the very least the police, Children's services or SOMEONE should be able to intervene. This legalized form of child abduction has to stop. People making false charges should be charged themselves and swift and hefty fines be paid. At the very least the files should be expunged of any and all false allegations right at the beginning. Meanwhile the STBX, with the help of her legal-aid-with-wings lawyer and coaching from your local women's shelter, will continue to legally be able to deny the father access to his daughter. Disgusting really.

Same thing goes for perjury or misleading the court. If proof is presented the person lying should have their pleadings struck IMMEDIATELY and major penalties and fines assessed IMMEDIATELY.

People get away with misbehaving each and every day in family court. If judges want to ease their caseloads then they should simply dismiss cases where the party bringing the lawsuit forward is found to be anything but truthful. Lawyers should also have to shoulder some responsibility for their client's actions.

I have nothing but criticism for a judge who blathers on (and makes money selling a book about it no less) about how warring parents are the problem. Really? I see the problem is with judges who simply don't call things as they see things at the start. By not nipping things in the bud these judges are merely throwing fuel on the flames IMO. For shame.

Last edited by arabian; 05-12-2014 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 05-13-2014, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Back to the topic of your thread Janibel. I really think there is something wrong with the initial part of people's first encounter with the courts. I have been following the one fellow's thread who has been denied access to his young daughter due to the allegations of his STBX. I particularly enjoy reading Mr. Toronto's posts as he outlines the strategies and steps involved in proceeding from an emergency motion to a case conference. This is an excellent example of where, in my opinion, things go terribly wrong and become a much bigger mess than they should be.
I've been following this case as well - best interest of the child? what a farce ... a father is being denied his right to be with his own daughter on UNFOUNDED allegations, what a mess.

One of Mr. Toronto's posts was quite insightful where he says that judge's use a form of abbreviated code words when passing on a file to another judge. Now the father has to jump through hoops and wait and wait and wait to go to the next step. If the father is being denied access to his daughter why is the evidence not presented at this time? At the very least the police, Children's services or SOMEONE should be able to intervene. This legalized form of child abduction has to stop. People making false charges should be charged themselves and swift and hefty fines be paid. At the very least the files should be expunged of any and all false allegations right at the beginning. Meanwhile the STBX, with the help of her legal-aid-with-wings lawyer and coaching from your local women's shelter, will continue to legally be able to deny the father access to his daughter. Disgusting really.
I'd go even further. As a deterrent to this kind of behavior, charges should be laid and all other claims tossed out of court - ppl would think twice before making false allegations. Lives are being ruined here!

Same thing goes for perjury or misleading the court. If proof is presented the person lying should have their pleadings struck IMMEDIATELY and major penalties and fines assessed IMMEDIATELY.
This is where family law and criminal should be merged. In cases of DV, perjury, child abduction ect.

People get away with misbehaving each and every day in family court. If judges want to ease their caseloads then they should simply dismiss cases where the party bringing the lawsuit forward is found to be anything but truthful. Lawyers should also have to shoulder some responsibility for their client's actions.
Agreed, from what I have witnessed so far in court, it's the lawyer's who are wasting time, appearing in court unprepared and using stalling tactics as a strategy.

I have nothing but criticism for a judge who blathers on (and makes money selling a book about it no less) about how warring parents are the problem. Really? I see the problem is with judges who simply don't call things as they see things at the start. By not nipping things in the bud these judges are merely throwing fuel on the flames IMO. For shame.
Yes, there's a lot of blathering going on though he states that all profits of the sale of this book are donated to the Make-a-wish-Fondation.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-13-2014, 09:03 AM
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To the original poster.

Family law is warped. It's more expensive than high profile US murder trials. They are usually solved in two months.

A family law lawyer in Toronto is easy 500 and hour.

It seems lawless (sorry for the pun).

No one seems to monitor it. I.E. Doctors, Teachers etc. all have to answer to a governing body.

At 500 an hour why wouldn't they drag it. Only ethics/client smarts or lack of money seems to force and end quickly.

I've witnessed family law lawyers going back to back on conferences and motions. I.e. double booking. You can't tell me they are paying attention to the clients by doing this.
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