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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by billiechic View Post
I DID answer your question. I said yes, they do get preferential treatment. And in most cases it IS what is best for the kids.

For thousands of years women have been the primary caregivers for children and men have been the providers. It is only in the last century that both sexes have been able to do both jobs at once. And not everyone can do a good job of it. It's going to take more than a few years to change society's idea of what is "best". And right now there are too many dead beats out there for the courts to take a risk on every dad simply because he is a dad. It's sad that a father has to "prove" he can be a good dad, but women have had to "prove" they can be providers. it's not fair, but it's life.
billiechic, you need to come into the 21st century. What you are talking about happened in the 60's and 70's when very few if any women worked. Today there is no designated "provider" and there are more women with careers in Canada than men. Despite "equality" of the sexes there is still rampant bias in the Courts towards women which has NOTHING to do with the facts on any case.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 03:35 AM
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WOW, some seriously outdated and old fashioned thinking, no wonder CS regulations are so slow to change if people really believe what they wrote.
For people who live in the present, there IS NO WAGE GAP between men and women. Women CHOOSE professions that pay less and CHOOSE to work FEWER HOURS. Women CHOOSE jobs that are lower RISK of harm (mining, oil field, construction etc. are mostly done by men). If you are going to risk your life when you go to work, you should get paid MORE. WHEN EDUCATION, AND WORK EXPERIENCE ARE THE SAME THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN THE PAY BETWEEN MEN AND WOMEN. Women like jobs with more benefits, like time off and health, they don't place as high a value on PAY. But if you want to become an engineer and work as hard as a man YOU WILL GET PAID THE SAME.

Now onto child care. IF YOU SPLIT THE CHILD CARE WITH YOUR HUSBAND EQUALLY, YOU NO LONGER HAVE THE EXCUSE THAT "WOMEN DO MOST OF THE CHILD CARE". You see, it really is a catch 22 - if you think you get paid less cause you have to take time off work etc. to care for your child, or do more - THEN SPLIT THE PARENTAL LEAVE WITH YOUR PARTNER. You can do that in CANADA NOW, but how many women make that CHOICE?! Or when they are little - mother takes 1st year off, father second etc.

After a divorce if you split custody of the kids YOU'LL HAVE MORE TIME FOR WORKING, THUS NOT HAMPERING YOUR CAREER. Whoops, there goes your excuse that you make LESS than men, har har.

AS A WOMAN I FIND IT REALLY TIRING WHEN WOMEN DON'T LOOK AT THE CHOICES THEY MAKE, AND HOW THESE CHOICES AFFECT THEIR LIVES. Woman are NOT infantile people who get used and abused by a corrupt man powered world, no matter how much you want to make yourself out to be a victim, as women so often do.

So the answer is YES, women get preferrential treatment, and there really IS NO GOOD REASON for it, because women are equal in all areas, IF THEY SO CHOOSE TO BE, and falling back on the "victim" mentality will just keep women down by thinking of themselves as infantile citizens who are not responsible for their own choices.

Men can do just as good a job at raising kids - IF MOTHERS AND THE COURTS WOULD JUST GIVE THEM THE CHANCE.
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by got2bkid View Post
............

Men can do just as good a job at raising kids - if mothers and the courts would just give them the chance.
Hear!!! Hear!!!!
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 07:23 AM
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Yes they do.
Women got screwed for years and I'm now paying for all those deadbeat loosers from the 70's who could simply walk away.
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 05:09 PM
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I will never argue that Mothers are better parents then Fathers.... or that children don't need both of their parents... and I have never said that one is more valuable than the other.

Every child deserves to know both of their parents... even if they aren't very good parents.

Truth be told, some people just shouldn't have children... ever! If we were all naturally born nurturers, instead of the selfish, vindictive people we are... then there would be no need for divorce lawyers and children's aid societies.

My opinions of the roles of todays men and women are based on my personal life.... I am sure I have my own biases based on my life experiences.

My mother worked throughout my childhood, but I was a stay at home mom until my children were in school full time... and that was a decision that my husband and I made together...

I wanted very much to be at home with my children. Sure, I could have put them in daycare at 6 weeks old for 12 hours a day and let some stranger raise them, but WE decided that our children were more important than our back account.

I knew going into it that I wasn't going to be an Executive Woman.... I wanted to be a Mommy.

I would never blame my husband because I haven't moved as far ahead in my career path as he has... that's ridiculous.

We both have the exact same post seondary degrees, but as a result of our decision for me to stay at home, there is now a HUGE wage gap between him and I.....
I am about 10 years behind him in seniority and promotions.

We also cannot BOTH work shift work. Daycare in my area isn't available on a 24 hour a day basis.

So WE decided that I would be responsible for the childrens day to day necessities, so that he could go to work, without interference, work flexible shifts, and make the bucks.

Our work experience is NOT the same, because I didn't "work" for 9 years, so therefore have less "experience".

Mine is a waiting game.... I keep waiting for the kids to get older so that I can focus on a rewarding career... but I'll never catch up to my husband!!!!
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 06:08 PM
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I would never blame my husband because I haven't moved as far ahead in my career path as he has... that's ridiculous.
Quite the opposite... I will be eternally grateful to him for working EXTRA hard, so that I could have the luxury of being able to stay home with our children!!!
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:15 PM
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Excuse me, if you actually read my post you would see that I said that it has only been in the "LAST CENTURY" that both sexes have taken on both roles. Society's "bias" towards women as the nuturers is based on HISTORY, not just today's society. And if more women have careers these days than men, I applaud those women for being able to balance both a career and a family. If few women worked in the 60's and 70's (as you claim,) then it has only been 30-40 years for these attitudes towards family roles to change as well.

YOu can deny all you want that there is no reason for the bias, but as far as I'm concerned I know many more mothers who do more of the nuturing than the fathers. Until the majority of fathers take on equal parenting, then there is a reason for this bias to exist. It is not fair to those who are great fathers, and it is up to them to force a change.

This is not to discredit those fathers who are active in their child's lives. I applaud you for your efforts and hope you get equality in the courts. The question was whether there was a bias. Yes there is. I don't agree with it, I was only providing an opinion on it's source. You can stop the mudslinging now, I was NOT pointing fingers at anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
billiechic, you need to come into the 21st century. What you are talking about happened in the 60's and 70's when very few if any women worked. Today there is no designated "provider" and there are more women with careers in Canada than men. Despite "equality" of the sexes there is still rampant bias in the Courts towards women which has NOTHING to do with the facts on any case.
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2009, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by got2bkid View Post
So the answer is YES, women get preferrential treatment, and there really IS NO GOOD REASON for it, because women are equal in all areas, IF THEY SO CHOOSE TO BE, and falling back on the "victim" mentality will just keep women down by thinking of themselves as infantile citizens who are not responsible for their own choices.

Men can do just as good a job at raising kids - IF MOTHERS AND THE COURTS WOULD JUST GIVE THEM THE CHANCE.
YES!!! Unfortunately some Fathers just don't make the effort. THOSE are the ones that ruin it for the rest!

I have to admit, I wasn't thinking about the women who do not act responsibly and make no effort to provide their own income for their family. I'm sure there are as many examples of these irresponsible mothers as there are Deadbeat Dads. I know a few of them.

I was thinking about my own situation, a FT working mother making a comparable wage to her husband and doing 90% of the child care. Based on his past efforts, he has not taken responsibility for his child. Should one automatically be given a second chance at parenting or should they have to earn it?
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 01:47 AM
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No need to get defensive billiechic. Just pointing out the obvious. As mentioned by a previous poster on this thread most fathers would be great Dads if they were given a chance both during the marriage and after a divorce. Many Dads get "benched" when it comes to child rearing and assume other tasks to maintain the household. That doesn't mean they don't want to, or can't. It just means they carry different responsibilities in a marriage.

Your historic reference regarding this bias is exactly that - historic and doesn't belong in today's world. The Courts, to the detriment of the fathers, have not moved along with the changes made since the 70s with regards to equality of the sexes. They still see men/fathers as progressed Neanderthals that are unable to care for the children of the marriage in the way a woman/mother can. This is clearly sexist and should not be part of a country like Canada that has one of the highest rankings in human development in the world.

The current flawed system of awarding child custody to the mothers nearly 80% of the time needs to change. Ditto with the current flawed child support guidelines need to be completely redone as they have in Australia where a FAR more equitable solution/approach to these issues has been implemented. Canada needs to step up to the plate. The Courts need to step up to the plate and politicians need to step up and rewrite family laws.
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2009, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stargate View Post
billiechic, you need to come into the 21st century.
I am only being defensive because you have said something uncalled for. You implied that I am relying on women's role in history and defending the preferential treatment women get when that is clearly not what I wrote.

Stargate, I agree with you for the most part. There does need to be a major overhaul of both the CS guidelines and the court system. And yes the preferential treatment some women get is based on an outdated opinion that women are better parents. I was only explaining where the bias comes from. But not all of it.

I think that if dads want to take on the parenting role more actively, then they need to do that right from the start, and not try to start when the divorce papers are signed. Maybe they didn't realize what they were missing, maybe they had other responsibilities in the household. It doesn't matter. If men and women are truely equal, then the fathers should be insisting they do the bathing and diaper changing, and the mom's can mow the lawn. They are both capable of all the jobs. It is GREAT that fathers are finally wanting to do these things, but until BOTH parents show the effort to take on an equal share of the parenting duties there will be a bias towards those who actively do them, regardless of whether they are men or women. JMHO.
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