Do you think that woman receive preferential treatment

[May_May]

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness

momforever1956: I completely agree with you...excellent post.


notlikingthesystem:
How is your post validation of women getting preferential treatment? For every nutty, vindictive, bitter ex-spouse lying on affidavits and dragging the kids into the divorce...I can show you another one of the opposite sex. As I've said many times, the issue with the system isn't gender-based. Its that people that continuously lie under oath aren't treated harshly enough and will continue to do it throughout the process at extreme expense to the other spouse. My stbx has lied about just about everything so far during our divorce process. His lawyer is scandalous, in my opinion...when one lie doesn't work...they just throw out a new one in an affidavit. He's sworn more than fictional financial statement and so far there hasn't been any consequences from him doing so. And guess what??? HE'S MALE!

The problem is that the system isn't well equipped for dealing with people who know how to lie and cheat their way through the divorce process. Men and women who engage in this type of behavior seem to get away with too much, too often.

Agreed momforver and pursuing...
I am being completely screwed by my ex. I've worked my a$$ off before, and during our entire marriage. My x is angry, aggressive and very confrontational. He does everything he can to bring our children into the mix. From day one I have insisted on 50/50 and pretty well forced him to take our boys equally. He has been caught lieing multiple times with the lawyers. We are back and forth right now as he wants me paying him SS as well as a portion of CS. He still hasn't paid me for my half of our house, and I'm still leasing another house 2 streets away, and paying the bills.

Definitely not sided towards the female in our situation !

[slughead10]

perhaps it is a system where more women are inclined to take advantage of then men.


you don't hear of many men getting there exs thrown in jail over false accusations but seems to be much more a prevalent tactic amongst females.

[rcmann]

Both men and women will fight dirty. This is where lawyers should be honest enough to counsel their client to do what is fair, right and just. Even more so when there are children involved. The decision for fair play should be made by all rational and intelligent adults involved in the process. This won't happen as long as lawyers are allowed to drag the fight on and on until one or both parties have been completely decimated financially and emotionally. I agree with slughead10 that you do not hear of women being thrown in jail over false accusations, but you hear of it often where men are concerned, particularly when there are children involved. The lawyers want couples to fight and fight dirty. So are all of us going to be like sheep led to a slaughter or are people going to smarten up and start being intelligent enough to act like well behaved adults.? May_May hopefully you will be treated properly in the courts, because he behaves badly now doesn't mean he will get away with it when it goes to court. This is where the lawyers could put a stop to it but don't because they are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. It is going to take collective action on the part of the public to end the legal extortion in family law. People have to write the Attorney General's Office and form support groups in their communities. If there are groups dedicated to reform, people can all pitch in together to take out full page ads in the newspapers demanding reform. What about people documenting how they are living on video and sending to their MP. Instead of a battle of the sexes perhaps it is time to look at the loose cannon of emotions that are fueling the fire. Divorce is a time for cool, level headed logic between divorcing spouses. It is unfortunate that so many can't see that their bad behavior is hurting them too, especially their kids.

[Pursuinghappiness]

perhaps it is a system where more women are inclined to take advantage of then men.
you don't hear of many men getting there exs thrown in jail over false accusations but seems to be much more a prevalent tactic amongst females.

First of all, I doubt just women do this. I'm female and I would never make false accusations criminally against anyone, I can't imagine how traumatic that would be to anyone and to do that to my stbx would severely traumatize my children. I'd bet that you'll find a bunch of false CAS allegations from both genders too.

I could say that I've read more allegations of men lying on financial statements than women too...but that may or may not be supported by factual data....a lot of women probably do it too.

I would say a more common theme in divorce seems to be one partner who breaks every rule...lies...cheats....badmouths, etc, to get what they want and one who won't stoop to that level. Or you see the really, really messy divorces where both spouses are a-holes and do it.

My point still stands. The issue with the system has zero to do with gender. It has far more to do with the fact that there is almost no consequences for lying and cheating. Affidavits and financial statements are sworn. I think its a load of crap that there is almost nothing done about it after I spend thousands proving its a pack of lies. If there were harsher penalties for false allegations (ie, police reports, CAS reports)...and harsh penalties for lying on sworn statements....for everyone...police officers, lawyers, and clients. How long do you think it would take before police/lawyers started actually taking their time when preparing reports/affidavits to make sure they were accurate?

The point is some people see it that lying can't hurt you and might help you...that is a major flaw in the system. Its not a gender issue because there are victims on both sides.

[Gary M]

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness

My point still stands. The issue with the system has zero to do with gender.

Agreed. It has everything to do with demographics which have, unfortunately, heretofore been heavily aligned with gender. This is changing and I think we'll see "fair" family law soon, as the differences in roles and wages between the genders disappears.

Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness

It has far more to do with the fact that there is almost no consequences for lying and cheating

Agreed. If people could get into big trouble for lying and cheating and knew that they could get into big trouble, it wouldn't be so commonplace.

Take WD's ex for example: The judge slammed her for dishonesty, cruelty, irresponsibility, etc., etc., and the "punishment" was to have been assessed for (partial) costs, which she will likely never have to pay. She should be in jail.

Cheers!

Gary

[momforever1956]

It is not gender based the fairness or unfairness of the courts, unfortunately the system has many weaknesses. If you are caught lying, being irresponsible, etc. there should be consequences, strict severe consequences, doesn't matter if you male or female.
It would be interesting to see it mapped out in a graph where each gender is placed depending on the issue of assets, SS or CS, access.

[May_May]

Originally Posted by Gary M

Agreed. If people could get into big trouble for lying and cheating and knew that they could get into big trouble, it wouldn't be so commonplace.

Take WD's ex for example: The judge slammed her for dishonesty, cruelty, irresponsibility, etc., etc., and the "punishment" was to have been assessed for (partial) costs, which she will likely never have to pay. She should be in jail.

So right...She should have the book thrown at her (literally as well), and some substantial precedence set for others.

[Dick Smith]

You should take a look at the research done by Peter Roscoe,
It shows a summary of all cases available on CanLii and it clearly
shows that the courts award support to women, against men, and in particular, costs orders are made generally against men and rarely against women. Case for case, if a woman looses, odds are she will not be paying costs of not the full amount claimed. If its a man that looses, (95% of the time) he will be paying costs most probably at what ever is claimed or close to it and that could be just creative billing.

Originally Posted by momforever1956

It is not gender based the fairness or unfairness of the courts, unfortunately the system has many weaknesses. If you are caught lying, being irresponsible, etc. there should be consequences, strict severe consequences, doesn't matter if you male or female.
It would be interesting to see it mapped out in a graph where each gender is placed depending on the issue of assets, SS or CS, access.

[qtpys4]

Originally Posted by Dick Smith

You should take a look at the research done by Peter Roscoe,
It shows a summary of all cases available on CanLii and it clearly
shows that the courts award support to women, against men, and in particular, costs orders are made generally against men and rarely against women. Case for case, if a woman looses, odds are she will not be paying costs of not the full amount claimed. If its a man that looses, (95% of the time) he will be paying costs most probably at what ever is claimed or close to it and that could be just creative billing.

I have been the one awarded costs, but that is because my ex husband absolutely refuses to provide financial information...and he then refuses to pay the costs. I was awarded $16,000. that he never paid...in 2001. Because of huge material changes, I have now taken him back to court and he again refuses ANY financial disclosure. He is in contempt again, and 2 years into this, he has not provided one document he is ordered to provide, and has not paid the court ordered $2,500. costs for the contempt. It seems ok...nothing happens. He makes a mockery of the courts. It shouldn't matter, man or woman, if they drag things out to cost the other person more than is necessary, there should be severe consequences...instead, that offended spous just pad the lawyers pockets. It should not be allowed..but this is the second time he has been able to get away with it, in two different jurisdictions.

[FightingForFamily]

My lawyer framed it pretty well. She simply explained:

"Look, you're the guy. You're going to have to pay, and pay and pay. There's really no way to avoid it. You just have to get used to it and see if you can manage how much you pay or for how long."

We settled out of court. I did the math on estimate cost of going to trial compared with the dishonest equalization amount and spousal support amounts and decided Justice would be too expensive.

The gender bias is not merely in court however. My friend has experienced how it also exists at OCL. He had shared custody of his children for more than 3 years (50/50) and thanks to OCL favouring the drug addicted, allegation slinging psychopath on the other side, he actually lost custody when they finally got to court.

Personally I've seen how power crazed child protection workers will make the most insane conclusions and assumptions about dads without even meeting them or doing any investigation, or finding any evidence, just because they are male. THEY called my ex looking for trouble, no one had any reported any, so they want out and did their best to coax something (anything) out of my ex to use against me in another matter.