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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Actually if you look up the source cited by the OP in this thread you will find many related research links.

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LF32's first paragraph on this thread: "This is a topic worth getting in to albeit I want to say upfront that I feel the syndrome would be better off named" Divorce Related Malicious Parent Syndrome". The following are some information found from the "Journal Of Family Violence"...."
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Interesting subject which appears to intersect with many disorders which, indeed, are in the DSM and these are not considered voo-doo or junk science by the courts in Family Law IMO.
Jumping back into the conversations because I find DSM revisions really interesting.

I don't think "malicious parent syndrome" (or mother syndrome, or whatever) will ever make it into the DSM for a couple of reasons. The first is etiology - diagnostic categories aren't tied to life events, they're tied to co-occurring dysfunctions or disturbances which may have many different causes and/or precipitating events. That's why we have categories like "reactive depression" rather than "job loss depressive disorder" or "broke up with girlfriend disorder". There was controversy over including PTSD as a separate category because it was seen to be too event-specific, even though it only specifies "trauma", not a particular kind of trauma.

The second reason is parsimony - to keep the DSM from growing exponentially, new categories should only be added if they describe disorders or dysfunctions which are not already accounted for by existing diagnoses. The behaviors described in this "malicious parent syndrome", if they were severe enough to be clinically significant rather than someone just being a jerk, would appear to be accounted for by existing diagnoses such as "antisocial personality disorder" or "borderline personality disorder". Divorce is one of the contexts in which these disorders manifest themselves, it is not a disorder in itself.

Finally, there's the reality that not all jerk-ish or a$$hole-ish behaviors that people exhibit are clinically significant. Sometimes someone who is being a selfish and hostile jerk is just that, a selfish and hostile jerk, not a person with a diagnosable psychiatric problem. DSM diagnoses are generally pretty tight in terms of frequency and severity of symptoms, to prevent everyone from diagnosing everyone else they don't like as suffering from a mental illness.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2014, 09:43 PM
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Firstly. Thank you Stripes for the mature, intelligent post touching on many great points worthy of discussion. It's appreciated.

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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
I don't think "malicious parent syndrome" (or mother syndrome, or whatever) will ever make it into the DSM for a couple of reasons. The first is etiology - diagnostic categories aren't tied to life events, they're tied to co-occurring dysfunctions or disturbances which may have many different causes and/or precipitating events..
I respectfully disagree. (Not saying Im right an you're wrong ..political forum).

"Relational Problems" is already a v-code in the DSM. They're working on updating it right now to give it specific diagnostic criteria. PAS, Malicious parent syndrome, etc have multi-causality for sure. Would never argue you on that. But it's this v-code on "relational problems" that will change how the DSM looks at this multi-dimensional causality. It will finally look at relational factors in "divorce-type" contexts. It will analyze these interactions "between/among" instead of just the individual.

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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
The second reason is parsimony - to keep the DSM from growing exponentially, new categories should only be added if they describe disorders or dysfunctions which are not already accounted for by existing diagnoses..
Here we talk about comorbidity. Many in the DSM meet criteria for 2 disorders such as OCD with comorbid depression. There certainly could be an underlying comorbid antisocial personality disorder with say PAS.

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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
Divorce is one of the contexts in which these disorders manifest themselves, it is not a disorder in itself..
You're correct. Divorce is not a disorder. But it's widely known as a "trigger". As a trigger, the maladaptive behaviors spawned from it (gender neutral) are illustrating to us just how bad we have to update the DSM and include diagnostic criteria for the "relational problems" (v codes).

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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
DSM diagnoses are generally pretty tight in terms of frequency and severity of symptoms, to prevent everyone from diagnosing everyone else they don't like as suffering from a mental illness.
From what I've read up on it so far there seem to be pretty specific, tight knit, consistent behaviors seen in PAS and other's similar. Once a few years go by and the reliability/validity becomes more significant than we can rule out that "he was just a jerk" theory and replace it with "the 250 parents studied all exhibited the exact same symptom clusters for PAS, to a tee".

It's just too early. I agree it shouldn't be in this instant. Just as PTSD was ridiculed and called 4 different names (specific to the type of trauma) before it finally was entered in the DSM, I predict this will do the same.

Perhaps it will have different names, different modes of discovering etiology .. perhaps it will be completely fine-tuned. But like it or not, divorce is a trigger for trauma. Just as bombs from the war or getting bitten by a dog are triggers for PTSD. Certain behaviors (using children as weapons, etc) are becoming disgustingly specific, to the point where psychological intervention is required. This is all IMO of course.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 12-28-2014, 10:12 PM
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I found this to be a good read. It discusses the "relational problems" and v codes I speak of.

Relationship problems and the DSM:needed improvements and suggested solutions
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