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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2014, 10:51 PM
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Care to add anything about the psychological ramifications of divorce and how they may contribute to hostile behavior? Regardless of gender? Or shall you continue to obsess about gender for another few pages? Just curious.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2014, 11:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Care to add anything about the psychological ramifications of divorce and how they may contribute to hostile behavior? Regardless of gender? Or shall you continue to obsess about gender for another few pages? Just curious.
Really? You post this:

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...32/#post187868

which is outdated and inaccurate and has been recanted by the original author, psychiatrist Richard Gardner himself. You post over a thousand words about the terrible actions of mothers and then expect to have a reasonable discussion without gender?

How many times does your original post and its accompanying quotes blame mothers?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2014, 11:09 PM
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Read my first line in my thread. I agree that "parent" is the better term.

Basically, I was interested in the article, so I referenced it. Just replace all the "mother" terms with "parent". Then we can have a discussion.

All I am interested in is what makes these hostile "parents" tick. What are the underlying issues that serve as the catalyst for their actions, and how they are related to the trigger of divorce. That's what Im interested in. Not gender. Not bashing mothers!

Again, can we stop obsessing about gender? Please?

And Richard Gardner was not the original author. Dr. Ira Turkat is.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2014, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
You can use my psychology background against me. I respect all opinions. The issue is you ladies.
Regarding the storming in .. all I'm saying is when you show up .. its always together. And its always to refute anything I say. I'm a big boy though. I can handle it.


That is because us ladies plan our strategy carefully. I co-ordinate every movement with Sad&Tired via messenger pigeon. We have mcdreamy on speakerphone. We also plan our outfits for tomorrow and gossip about cute boys. It's a lady thing.

More seriously, if you take every disagreement with your posting as a personal attack, there's no "discussion". The thread just turns into a lot of insinuations about motivations and secret agendas ("when you show up ... its always together"). This is pointless.
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:19 AM
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Fantastic Stripes. Thanks for staying on topic. (sarcastic overtone)

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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
That is because us ladies plan our strategy carefully..
Won't hear a disagreement from me.

Moving on .. (or trying)

The relationship between divorce and hostile, vengeance-seeking behavior requires more attention .. regardless of gender. Some of the stories I've heard and read are incredibly disturbing.

Identifying and studying the underlying variables and the predisposing factors to behave in such a primitive manner are of the utmost importance.

This little snippet from CBS news really captured my attention:

WPEC-TV CBS12 News :: News - Special Reports - Toxic Divorce
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Old 12-21-2014, 02:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post

The relationship between divorce and hostile, vengeance-seeking behavior requires more attention .. regardless of gender. Some of the stories I've heard and read are incredibly disturbing.

Identifying and studying the underlying variables and the predisposing factors to behave in such a primitive manner are of the utmost importance.

This little snippet from CBS news really captured my attention:

WPEC-TV CBS12 News :: News - Special Reports - Toxic Divorce
Most divorce's are hostile, I mean the act of dismantling what was (whether we agree or not) and having to pay for it is the utmost humiliation. When there's custody issues it's like a dagger to the heart.

Lawyer's take advantage of us at the most vulnerable time of ours lives. Most of us just bend over and take it, though as your news report shows, every now and then ppl crack (both genders). I see more of this in the future ...
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Old 12-21-2014, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Fantastic Stripes. Thanks for staying on topic. (sarcastic overtone)



Won't hear a disagreement from me.

Moving on .. (or trying)

The relationship between divorce and hostile, vengeance-seeking behavior requires more attention .. regardless of gender. Some of the stories I've heard and read are incredibly disturbing.

Identifying and studying the underlying variables and the predisposing factors to behave in such a primitive manner are of the utmost importance.

This little snippet from CBS news really captured my attention:

WPEC-TV CBS12 News :: News - Special Reports - Toxic Divorce
LF32. I have been rooting for you to get equal access with your daughter as what happened to you seemed unfair and cruel. An your ex has certainly turned into a offensive driven parent.

But in this last post I see a trait that may account for why your ex left you. You are always right and if someone does not agree with your opinion you attack - not physically- but verbally. And because you are educated and in the fiield of human physic you seem to know where to point the scarasim. You need to becareful of that tendancy because I donot think Judges like to be educated. They usually think they know everything. Thats why they get to make the big decisions.

No one is really saying you do not know what you are talking about, as you have all the right educationaly background to understand all that " mumbo jumbo". ('I personally got lost, bored and glazed over the articles amd I have 2 University degrees and 1 Post Grad but not in matters of the mind)

From what I gleened from the conversations here the other posters are merely pointing out some of your statiistics are old, some can be construd either direction ( as all stats can be). These are just opinions. I know you have been dragged through the " mud" by a women but not all women are the same.
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Old 12-21-2014, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beachnana View Post

But in this last post I see a trait that may account for why your ex left you. You are always right and if someone does not agree with your opinion you attack - not physically- but verbally. And because you are educated and in the fiield of human physic you seem to know where to point the scarasim. You need to becareful of that tendancy because I donot think Judges like to be educated. They usually think they know everything. Thats why they get to make the big decisions.

No one is really saying you do not know what you are talking about, as you have all the right educationaly background to understand all that " mumbo jumbo". ('I personally got lost, bored and glazed over the articles amd I have 2 University degrees and 1 Post Grad but not in matters of the mind)
I've pointed out this tendency months ago - and have been ignored by LF32 ever since .... good luck with this Beachnana.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2014, 11:31 AM
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Well Beach,

Its a bit more than that. I get called "lame", etc. That's not a professional discussion. I'm not trying to be right and say everybody else is wrong. In fact, is not what the 3 posters came on to this thread doing? Interesting how some defend their points its fine. If I defend mine then my education gets brought up, I get called defensive.. etc.

I'm studying the topic. I'm simply sharing my findings. It's getting called "voo doo science", My posts are being called lame. But that's all fine and dandy .. somehow.

You can see why my ex left me? Wow Beach. Below the belt and very hurtful. I'm simply conversing about the complex dynamics of nasty divorces and what can be done to alleviate the pain, psychological ramifications, etc. Have you checked out my thread on dealing with divorce? I'm trying to help.
Honestly, that comment was very uncalled for. Ouch.

And we're mentioning women again. If you scroll up you'll notice I don't want this to be a gender war. I lived with two girls whom I loved dearly. I currently live with 2 girls whom I love dearly. I was raised by a strong single mother. I have no issues with women. Just like I have no issues with being right.
We're in a political forum. We're having different opinions and discussing them. I respect theirs. Do they respect mine? Not sure but I know Im being singled out for some reason.

And for the love of god .. this is not my case in court. It's a pastime. A study. Im intrigued by human behavior. Id like to see some interventions in the hostility, etc. My plan is not to try to educate a judge. That would be silly

In the end the focus is on the children. Building on these v codes (relational problems) in he DSM to include more diagnostic criteria and delve in to the examining the variables "between and among" instead of an individualized account would be a great starting point.

Studies of high conflict divorce show that,
Quote:
In short, the literature indicates that parental conflict is a major source of harm to children, whether the children are in intact families or their parents have separated or divorced. Children whose parents have separated or divorced where there is a high level of conflict between the parents display greater behavioural problems than children from low- or medium-conflict divorced families. However, serious questions remain. What causes high conflict between spouses? How does one differentiate between high- and lower-conflict families? The next chapter attempts to answer these questions.
http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/rp-pr/fl-lf/divorce/2004_1/p3.html

The Journal of Family Psychology found that,

Quote:


Accordingly, a diagnostic system that provided better guidance regarding when to provide treatment for relationship difficulties and when to utilize
relationship-oriented interventions to enhance outcomes would have great clinical benefit. A substantial body of basic research shows that the relational context of disorder is consequential for etiology and treatment decision making. The need to make better provisions for the description of
relational context is most obvious when disorders of childhood are focal.
https://public.psych.iastate.edu/ccu...in%20DSM-V.pdf

Divorce and family conflict is a complex combination of many interacting variables, which makes it tough to analyze. I've read both arguments of PAS for instance. Although I do agree that more reliability/validity is required (just as PTSD did years before it was included in the DSM), I am certain, as many others are that it will be included. (This is simply an opinion)

The enhancement of these v codes dealing with relational problems are the starting point. The scientific community needs to start recognizing the desperate need for intervention to the mental health of family members trudging through a high conflict divorce. This begins with identifying sets and subsets of particular diagnostic criteria and engaging in further research as to what the optimal interventions will be.

Denying access, teaching children to hate another parent .. these are abnormal behaviors of the worst kind. It s child maltreatment, (which is already a v code in the DSM). This is not "voo doo science", nor "junk science". Like it or not .. it IS happening and people ARE affected. Suicides, murders, psychological disorders . The pure hatred and vengeance bred by a nasty divorce is plaguing our society. The emotional response of anxiety is a normal reaction. However, PAS, murder, suicide, etc is not normal yet it's happening more and more.

I can only pray to god that not many people view the need for intervention, research and study as "voo doo science". That is an absolutely disturbing reaction to what's going on.

Sidenote: Beach .. please point to anywhere I launched an attack. I'm very interested. Did I bring anybody's education up? Call anyone lame? Did I tell anyone I saw why their spouse left them? Those would be more considered attacks I would think.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 12-21-2014 at 11:42 AM.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2014, 02:49 PM
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Putting the personal jabs aside I find the topic of what is or is not categorized in the "current" DSM to be interesting.

I recall a time, years ago, whether there was much debate on SADS (Seasonal Affective Disorder) and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome whether or not they are legitimate disorder worthy of being in the DSM. Years of research and intense peer review are essential. My undergrad is psychology so I have an inkling of some of this but I am certainly not current.

I appreciate anytime anyone posts things like the topic of this thread and it should indeed be lively debated.
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