Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Political Issues

Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2011, 12:28 AM
karmaseeker's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Here :)
Posts: 470
karmaseeker is on a distinguished road
Default Is the Divorce Act Unconstitutional? What do you think?

CONSTITUTION ACT, 1982(80)
PART I
CANADIAN CHARTER OF RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.



May the debate begin!
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2011, 08:25 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,448
Mess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the rough
Default

Hmm. According to that, marriage is unconstitutional in the first place.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2011, 12:29 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 560
AtALoss is on a distinguished road
Default

GRRRRRR why does this site do this. While i was typing quite the reply It timed out and now my post is lost.....


I posted a few days ago that our suit against the Crown is going to be heard this September. Our points about the enforcement acts being unconstitutional are going to be started to be addressed and if need be it will go to the SCC if we have our way.

Last edited by AtALoss; 07-22-2011 at 12:34 PM.
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2011, 05:26 PM
karmaseeker's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Here :)
Posts: 470
karmaseeker is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtALoss View Post
GRRRRRR why does this site do this. While i was typing quite the reply It timed out and now my post is lost.....


I posted a few days ago that our suit against the Crown is going to be heard this September. Our points about the enforcement acts being unconstitutional are going to be started to be addressed and if need be it will go to the SCC if we have our way.

Tell me more.


" Suit against FRO, an update Well it seems that we are finally going to have our day in court..... September.
I will write more details shortly, but I want to ask every one yet againt to tell us your story. We want to present these to ultimately to bring about reform."


Is this just against FRO?

I have another friend on here that is in talks about a class action suit too.


I want to know if there are any suits against the use of the guidelines as they clearly go against --
7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.



Further the adversarial approach is clearly in breech of 12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment.

I realize that there has just been a reform introducing mandatory info sessions and mediation for couples starting divorce now but htis is far from enough.

There needs to be a mandating path set up to eliminate many more cases from ever going to a judge and promote faster resolution. the speed in which things happens is in itself cruel and unusual punishment - particularly for the children!


For example: 1. Info session

2. Mandatory mediation. - if no resolution after 3 meetings
3. Mandatory Arbitration - suggesting paths of parent coordination, counselling, classess.

Only when these 3 steps have been tried and failed in finding adequate solutions should there be court involvement.


Once in court - simple as EVERYONE NEEDS TO SUBMIT COMPLETE FINANCIAL DISCLOSURE, signed affidavit, and brief - failure to do so will be interpreted as unwillingness to find solutions and not in the best interest of the children. ... Resulting in immediate temporary order in favour of the other parent.


Failure to provide documentation for 2nd visit should then close the case awarded the opposing parent with all requested orders within the scope of the law.

Should both parties submit paper work the process should be on a time limit so that neither party or the children are indefinitely dragged along a legal hell.

1 year from start to finish.

Children should be required to attend play therapy or private counselling for the length of time the parties are involved in a court system.

Now just elect me for Attorney General and I'll get on with changing the world.




Last edited by karmaseeker; 07-22-2011 at 05:55 PM.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:46 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 560
AtALoss is on a distinguished road
Default

Hopefully the cyber world is going to work with me this morning
to help I will try to keep my answers somewhat brief.

My spouses suit is going to be addressed in stages. first to be addressed will be the overpayment. It will be against the ex and will address the overpayment, interest and costs.

Next is the Crown. When the statement of Claim was intitailly filed It laisted FRO as a Joint defendant. FRO is so protected and thier attitude is that you cannot sue them. Fundamentally this is wrong but we all know that. FRO was sucessful in court in having themselves stricken and the Crown being thier replacement in the suit. Technicalities I guess but to us it just feels like yet again they are being let off the hook for thier actions.

Here are some of our beefs that we hope to have addressed when it comes to the Constitution.

In our wonderful and free country do we not have provisions in place that are there to provide the basic necessities of life to each individual? The laws that we are so proud of in our society have failed this individual tremendously. Unfortunately there are hundreds of individuals that are placed in the same situation in Canada on a daily basis.

Under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, under Legal Rights, the Constitutional Act of 1982 reads as follows in Section 7 of the Act:

7. Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of the person and the right not to be deprived thereof except in accordance with the principles of fundamental justice.

Further sections read as follows:

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search and seizure.

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned.

12. Everyone has the right not to be subjected to any cruel or unusual treatment or punishment.

26. The guarantee in this Charter of certain rights and freedoms shall not be construed as denying the existence of any other rights or freedoms that exist in Canada.

28. Notwithstanding anything in this Charter, the rights and freedoms referred to in it are guaranteed equally to male and female persons.

as we all know the administratotrs of this act dont haul you out in the village square like in some other poor countries. They are just more subtle in thier coersion when edaling with a payor.

read further on what happened to us....
Richard's space | Just another WordPress.com site
This is happening to so many Ontarians/Canadians. Our Lawyer estimates that there are about 28,000 cases that should be reopened due to FRO mishandling... and these are just the ones we know about.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:09 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 560
AtALoss is on a distinguished road
Default

In regards to a Class action suit we have talked about this as well. We have forwarded other peoples stories to our lawyer and he has many cases from his resources. They problem is is that thier are few that are willing to go out on that limb and begin to speak of thier experiences. My general feeling is that this is born out of fear of reprecussions from FRO and the government. Trust me this does occur, we personally live through it to this day.
We still are going ahead and want to hear from anyone that has an issue with FRO. While a class action at this point any will not be heard with us in Sept. we still want them to present to the Crown and the Superior Court of Canada. The purpose is to illustrate just how out of controll the system is.

Think about it..... With in your circle of friends/family how many of them have been touched by FRO and similar agencies in one way or another? I bet that you would not have to throw that stone very far. Now how manyhave something good to say..... not many. Largely it will be filled with payors but the recipiants have thier issues too. Two cases in point,
1) a recipient has an order for support FRO over a 15+ year span never collected a dime for him, but had him listed as he was the payor. He is in BC and FRO told the Att. Gen. of BC that HE was a liar....
2) Recipiant, under court order is owed 47,300 in support arrears. nothing collected on this what so ever since dec 2010 FRO, refuses to do anything about it... no default hearing.

and there are many stories where FRO has lost payments forcing payors to the streets, underground for fear of going back to jail, this poor guy just wanted to come clean with the system and start to pay again instead they sent him to jail. So he has hid out of fear of this happening again. then there are the many stories of payors taking thier lives because they can no longer handle the stress related to this warped system.

It's time for change and we all need to start to speak out and just maybe we will someday collectively be heard.... thats all we are just trying to accomplish.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2011, 07:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 560
AtALoss is on a distinguished road
Default

What i see as needing to be address is that fair and equal treatment needs to be addressed first and then a system that eliminates opportunity for conflict. one area is in the termination of support. I would like to see a system that FRO automatically stops supports at the designated times ie for children at age 18. if they require such beyond the child must provide proof of further need. Yes the child as too many parents lie. It is not a hardship upon thier 18th birthday to send in thier transcripts and enrollment records and then FRO could just say okay it continues for anther year til we get something from you again. If they are in school then it should be then paid to them for those expenses. SS well the courts are already assigning durations then why are so many carrying on long after. To me if the court gives you say 5 years then that should be it.

There are already provisions in the enforcement act where the director can step in but repeated does not exercise that right. Instead they choose to adopt the not with out a court order.... well you have it in the first place and it said when they turn 18 (or what ever the terminating events may be)...simple?...well here are many of us years after in court fighting it out wasting ours and taxpayor money.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2011, 10:23 AM
karmaseeker's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Here :)
Posts: 470
karmaseeker is on a distinguished road
Default

While I agree fully with FRO's policies being horrid- the heart of it still is that FRO is like the GASTAPO enforcing the crown's policies. The guidelines need to be scrapped then the policies surrounding collection would be forced to change as a result.

Got to get to the root of it. The divorce ACT itself is a breech of fundamental rights and freedoms.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2011, 02:42 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 103
epinecone is on a distinguished road
Default The Divorce Act

The Divorce Act Breaches several conditions of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. But does anyone care?

However, the general perceptions of our society are still rooted in the attitudes that led to the current act. Too many Canadian adults are using the Divorce Act as a source of financial enrichment in place of their own efforts to support themselves and their children.

As a victim of the Divorce Act, I no longer have any love for this country or our governmental systems. The Divorce Act has allowed my former spouse to ruin the children and I financially and emotionally, and it has allowed three family law lawyers to profit from the destruction of our family.

Shame on Pierre Turdeau for bringing in the reforms of 1968, and shame on every MP since who has done nothing to change it.

When I was a child, I loved this country. As a man who has been destroyed by divorce, I have this country, our laws, and our government.

The following Changes need to be made to the Divorce Act Immediately:

1. The Presumption of Equal Shared Parenting immediately at seperation. (If one party leaves the other, Equal Shared Parenting automatically begins)

2. The elimination of the Child Support Guidelines. A system needs to be put in place wherein only the direct costs of the children are considered. Additionally, the income and income potential of both spouses needs to be considered.

3. Spousal support needs to be eliminated. Every Canadian adult needs to understand their responsibility to be self supporting.

4. The end of Property theft through marriage and divorce(No Fault /50-50). You get what you bring in, you get back what you contribute, you don't get rich unless you earn it.

5. Make it the governments responsiblity to post a picture and personal story of every individual who committs suicide during divorce in a National news paper. Maybe it would be good for some people on this site to read about the real victims of the Divorce Act.

Put these changes in place tommorrow, and the divorce rate would be cut in half. Dont change the divorce act tommorrow and our society will continue the decline.

No matter what happens, the children will suffer when their parents split apart. However, we can shorten their suffering by giving them two parents to love, and allowing those parents to continue to live after divorce.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 07-27-2011, 04:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 560
AtALoss is on a distinguished road
Default

Hi Epinecone
I agree with many of your sentiments but portions of the acts are working towards what you say needs to be done. More my concern is the administration of those acts that brings things more into questionI feel that it is more the actions of the individuals... the vindictive ex, the bad lawyer. the actions of those at FRO.... These are the ones that are breaking the constitution by creating situations that are not equal and unfair. The system has been drawn away from the principles that it has set down. The judges and lawyers are somewhat to blamefor twisting the basic of our law which is the constitution. From that all our laws and acts are based. When a judge makes a decision if it is widely accepted and used it becomes a law in its aceptance as a standard. The flaw is that these decisions intiially are supposed to be based on the constitution and maintaining those rights but as time goes by, if left on its own it becomes warped and twisted. Then it is a free for all. Nuff said. While it is an extreme tradgedy as to what is happening out there today it can change if we speak up to see change, if we dont well things stay the same.
I for one do so and hopefully by our doing so that it will begin to happen.
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Online divorce? ExWife2Many General Chat 10 08-12-2010 08:15 AM
Surviving Divorce FPI Divorce & Family Law 2 04-29-2009 07:56 PM
Help! My ex got a desk divorce, doesn't pay child support, I appealed - will it be OK Jane007 Divorce & Family Law 6 01-22-2009 07:06 AM
Confused - Need Help -30 Days Up TODivorce Divorce & Family Law 1 12-22-2006 08:04 AM
The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: A 25 Year Landmark Study mom22galz Political Issues 2 06-30-2006 10:04 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:09 AM.