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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
Agreed, in another thread I outlined that almost 50% of my monthly budget can be attributed to my access time with our son.

I don't have enough money to put a roof over my son's ahead, and I never will as long as the ex rides the spousal support wagon. I have $550 per month in my budget for housing. Even at that rate, I am overdrawn by almost $400 per month.

My son's access time is only good because of the generosity of my parents and my girlfriend who welcome him into their homes. Lord knows I can't provide anything for him. It was his birthday this month, and simply to host a party for 4 guests with some food and loot bags put my rent onto overdraft.

My computer has been broken for 2 months and I can't afford to fix it. It's very frustrating living this way. I have a perfectly good income (60k+) that vanishes into other people's coffers so that I am living in poverty.
I'm in a similar boat with my CS payments for my 3 kids. If I moved into a smaller place I may be able to afford it, but then I wouldn't be able to provide them a stable environment to live in when they were with me and I would lose access. So I am riding the debt train.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-05-2013, 03:30 PM
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SingingDad, see a 2008 posting by 350_Dad which references a lawyer's feelings that the CS regime violates the Charter Rights....
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2013, 12:57 AM
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i think the best way would be to file a class action. but perhaps we should first form a workgroup find legal deficiencies with the current structure, then prepare a case and approach a legal firm to fight on our behalf.

people here are mostly sharing their situations without actual contribution to the solution. venting has its need for sure, but lets focus on the solution.

lets try to form some legal arguments here.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2013, 09:55 PM
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Lucien Khodeir has been taking this to court for a decade I believe....he has his own website as well....I believe it is childrenwith2homes.ca but don't quote me....just google 'Lucien Khodeir' and see what hes got to say.

Funny how a five year old could see it......
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:40 AM
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involveddad75 will become famous soon enough
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You are correct, he has also written two books on the subject.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by NeverGreen View Post
Lucien Khodeir has been taking this to court for a decade I believe....he has his own website as well....I believe it is childrenwith2homes.ca but don't quote me....just google 'Lucien Khodeir' and see what hes got to say.

Funny how a five year old could see it......
Before holding anyone up as a "guru" to how to deal with any legal matter I always HIGHLY RECOMMEND everyone review the jurisprudence (case law) they were involved in and the results:

For example:

Lucien Roger Khodeir v. Governor-in-Council, 2011 CanLII 20821 (SCC)
Date: 2011-04-14
Docket: 34043
URL: CanLII - 2011 CanLII 20821 (SCC)
Citation: Lucien Roger Khodeir v. Governor-in-Council, 2011 CanLII 20821 (SCC)

Dismissed with costs. ($Unknown)

Khodeir v. Canada (Governor-in-Council), 2010 FCA 308 (CanLII)
Date: 2010-11-15
Docket: A-168-10
URL: CanLII - 2010 FCA 308 (CanLII)
Citation: Khodeir v. Canada (Governor-in-Council), 2010 FCA 308 (CanLII)

Dismissed with costs. ($2,000)

Khodeir v. Canada (Attorney General), 2009 CanLII 36992 (ON SC)

Date: 2009-07-14
Docket: 08-4343
URL: CanLII - 2009 CanLII 36992 (ON SC)
Citation: Khodeir v. Canada (Attorney General), 2009 CanLII 36992 (ON SC)

Dismissed with costs. ($20,000)

CanLII - Search all CanLII Databases

Just because someone writes a book doesn't mean they should be "followed", "admired" or be given "guru" status. By my accounts, and just quick review, already down $22,000 in costs awarded against the person... 11 cases come up with the name and I am not going to summarize them all. I just encourage everyone to read up on the person before "following" them in an "OACP-like" manner.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2013, 12:56 AM
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in 1940 the nazi's made jewish people sign over their homes,
paintings and so on, then they killed them

the signature made it legal to steal from them

thats somewhat where tayken is coming from, she likes it the way it is - don't try and change anything, cause 1 person is contineoudly oppressed dont believe them , they must be mad

insane view in my opinion

our freedom today is based on the actions of brave men , if anything Canadians should fight for what they feel is right to honour those who died for our freedom

I pay my child support every month on time

the real question is why are fathers always paying the child support , whens the last time you heard of 'her' paying child support - it does happen but not often

laugh my @ss off

if both parents are equally valuable to the child then why isnt the standard 50/50 access

laugh my @ss off

in Canada by default they are 'her children' because the infrastructure has matured with the 1960's mentality that dads pay and mothers must be protected

its called prejudice

Canada doesn't want this secret out - it effects educated immigration ($$) and will have us fall from the preferred list of global investors

that hurts our economy

we are free - we can go to court for +20 years , there fore we are not oppressed - communist Russia just said 'dont bother' - which is better dads ?

god bless all you fathers out their and your struggles

peace out
Pokeman

Last edited by pokeman; 06-25-2013 at 12:58 AM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
in 1940 the nazi's made jewish people sign over their homes,
paintings and so on, then they killed them

the signature made it legal to steal from them
Honestly, a "Natzi" argument? Godwin's Law applies here...

Godwin's law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:
Originally Posted by wikipedia
Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies[1][2]) is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] that has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[2][3] In other words, Godwin said that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope—someone inevitably makes a comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.

Although in one of its early forms Godwin's law referred specifically to Usenet newsgroup discussions,[4] the law is now often applied to any threaded online discussion, such as forums, chat rooms and blog comment threads, and has been invoked for the inappropriate use of Nazi analogies in articles or speeches.[5]

In 2012, "Godwin's Law" became an entry in the third edition of the Oxford English Dictionary.[6]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
thats somewhat where tayken is coming from, she likes it the way it is - don't try and change anything, cause 1 person is contineoudly oppressed dont believe them , they must be mad
Note the spelling issues, and basic speed at which this was probably written by the author of this message. Coupled with the fact that Goldwin's Law was applied in the opening statement... Add to the fact the need to gender identify me which I am sure many have found incredibly funny itself doesn't lend well to any position this poster is making.

Interestingly, how does this poster where I am "coming from"? How does the poster come to the conclusion that "she likes it that way"?

The whole paragraph itself is histrionic ("Overly theatrical or melodramatic in character or style.").

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
insane view in my opinion
Yes, I do agree, leveraging Goldwin's law in an opening statement on a message forum, making unfounded assertions about someone, etc... All do demonstrate a possible pattern of behaviour that is best addressed by a mental health professional.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
our freedom today is based on the actions of brave men , if anything Canadians should fight for what they feel is right to honour those who died for our freedom
More histrionics... I am not sure how those who are in the military and their services and especially their deaths defending Canada are related to the argument at all...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
I pay my child support every month on time
You are supposed to. High conflict people often try to take credit for things that they are supposed to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
the real question is why are fathers always paying the child support , whens the last time you heard of 'her' paying child support - it does happen but not often
Lots of explanations most would be lost on you. For example, the fact that males earn more than women still in our society.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
laugh my @ss off

if both parents are equally valuable to the child then why isnt the standard 50/50 access

laugh my @ss off
Well, because it is hard to "win" sole custody in a court room from a equally involved, loving and good parent. I find that those that come here to lament about the gender bias use the same arguments before the court and in the extreme cases demonstrate histrionics (e.g. the "Natzi" argument) in a court room or other arguments that are just irrelevant to custody and access disputes. They do it to themselves... The "system" doesn't do it to "them". Their arguments are weak, easily identified as irrelevant and in the extreme cases demonstrate they are unable to communicate anything other than their fears/anxieties/worries that are often deluded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
in Canada by default they are 'her children' because the infrastructure has matured with the 1960's mentality that dads pay and mothers must be protected
Really, where is law does it state this? Your case and your friend "John" are not the basis for all jurisprudence in Canada...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
its called prejudice
It is called mental health issues really...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
Canada doesn't want this secret out - it effects educated immigration ($$) and will have us fall from the preferred list of global investors
Really? How so?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
that hurts our economy
Really? How so?

Someone like yourself would still take the "Natzi" argument to court even with a set standard for 50-50 alleging "abuse", gender bias, etc... I am doubtful that your matters would be any different if there was a 50-50 standard of access... I suspect you would still make the same argument before the court, try to leverage the "abuse" clause and litigate your matter into oblivion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
we are free - we can go to court for +20 years , there fore we are not oppressed - communist Russia just said 'dont bother' - which is better dads ?
I wonder what Godwin's law has to say about the "communist argument" in a message thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeman View Post
god bless all you fathers out their and your struggles
My deepest sympathies for the children wrapped up in your family law matter and the justices you appear before.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2013, 01:01 PM
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A question for the eloquent speaker Tayken...

Please don't take this as an insult and trying to "stir the pot" - it's merely one of curiousity.

Your postings are very detailed and are a definite asset to this forum - a valuable resource to help those thrown into the Family Law nightmare try and navigate their way without (or limiting) $500 an hour legal assistance.

Observation: while well written, your postings overwhelmingly give the impression of "supporting" the current Family Law regime. Simply out of curiousity, would you consider answering the following questions....

-are YOU divorced (or going through the fun of separation) ?

- if so, do you recieve OR pay CS or SS ?

- I think most realize that "on paper" the system is gender neutral. However, I've spoken to several Family Law lawyers (both male and female) who were quite adament that there is little doubt that the system has a serious bias against males. Do you honestly believe the system has ZERO gender bias against males ?

-if you had the power of making say three changes to Family Law guidelines, very briefly, what would they be ?

I hope you don't find my questions intrusive - but given how well you express your feedback to others questions I was simply curious of what your personal perspective/experience with Family Law is.

I suspect (OK I can guarantee) we will disagree but in my opinion the system is seriously flawed. Perhaps the general "intent" was good, but the reality is the system is truly horrendous. A few examples include...

-the parent with less than 40% access to children gets ZERO offset of CS - basically assuming that a parent who spends 39% fo time with children has the SAME cost (ie. zero) as a parent who NEVER sees the children.

-short of gross abuse/neglect, there is no accountability as to how CS is spent by the recipient. I would submit most payors of CS (who lets face it are usually male) are only too happy to help pay for their children. However, is it really out of line for them to have some say as to how their hard earned dollars are spent ? Or to be upset if the CS money is squandered. Do you really believe that CS money is NEVER abused by the recipient to the detriment of the children ? I'm not talking about tracking CS when its only a few hundred per month but a few THOUSAND is a different issue.

-if one spouse basically refused to work during the marriage (and after) why is the "working" parent punished financially. Yes, I know you can in theory "impute" but for someone like that you're likely to impute min wage at best and at what legal cost ?.

-why does the government "micro manage" divorced CS PAYORS but has very little care (short of criminal action) against those that are married. For example, how often is a married couple sued by a child due to the parent not being able (willing) to pay university. However, once divorced a paying parent has no authority on this issue - you only have that right if you're married.

-Why doesn't the govt, if they truly believe Family Law is "fair"; insist upon mandatory education BEFORE marriage. Right now they only mandate it before the divorce actions. You yourself defended this subtle "hiding" of Family Law since (I paraphrase your reply)....if people were made truly aware of the potential cost of divorce and CS then some people would likely choose NOT to have kids which would aggravate the current labour shortage in Canada. The rationale would be that a financially astute person would realize the enormous financial risk they are undertaking should they marry in Canada - something that can be triggered by the other spouse literally "on a whim". Whether its a reasonable response is irrelevent. One could be the ideal partner and its no protection if the other spouse gets "bored" and wants to play the field but have the working spouse fund it - perhaps for decades. Is that truly FAIR ?

I could go on but I suspect you understand the thrust of my argument.

Due to the monetary incentive to retain the current regime, I very much doubt anything will change. My hope is that a forum such as this does two things...

a) Helps those already embroiled in the nightmare of divorce minimize the damage.

b) For younger people thinking about marriage - the smart ones will do some homework "on line" and research what they are getting into BEFORE they make the leap. Sadly the online resources weren't available to me in the "stone age" lol when I got married - I truly wish it was so I could have protected myself.

Anyway, I look forward to your reply. And, I do very much appreciate - as I'm sure many here do - your well documented replies to those searching for help. As I said earlier, I'm just curious to your personal experience. You seem to be overly "positive" about the system for someone who was on the "wrong end" of it as many of us are (ie. the spouse who worked hard, earned a decent income, was good to our spouses, yet are being strangled financially by the system). Mind you, the "recipients" of the payors money, I'm sure, are happy with it. As Dire Straits so wisely put it, who wouldn't want to get "their money for nothing" lol (note: chicks are NEVER "free" in my experience, and most guys here I suspect would agree, regardless of what Mark Knopler wrote lol)......

Last edited by shellshocked22; 06-25-2013 at 01:05 PM.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-25-2013, 01:05 PM
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pokeman has a little shameless behaviour in the past
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again tayken you have outdone yourself referencing someone else, can you not make a stand on your own - if goldwin catalogued an internet behavior based on their observation who cares

if I wanted to waste my time I am sure I could find a 'mental issue' to tag you with as every time you feel threatened you go down that road " they are high conflict - they have mental issues "

you are too funny

my point is if someone wants to challenge the support tables have at it, especially if section 7 is in some cases already calculated into the grid amounts.

just because 'Khodeir' lost doesn't mean they are wrong unless you believe the court makes no mistakes and they are next to gods

not of interest to many but I had some of the most expensive lawyers $ can buy in Canada , they were collaborative whereas my x had adversarial lawyers 1 of which was +$500 hr - they played to win while mine played to tie and in the end mine were simply no match.

still laughing my @ss off - 50/50 child access court ordered day 1 will get rid of a bunch of legal deadbeats that feed off the misery of familys in this country.

peace out
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