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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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Old 11-28-2014, 11:43 AM
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Sometimes I wonder if it's the mothers who truly want more than 50/50 or is it an automatic, maternal response that regardless of the situation they should have more simply because .. well...they're the mother. In reality many mothers could pursue careers of their own, take more time for themselves (reducing stress), etc., but unconsciously and from an evolutionary perspective, there could be that lingering sense of entitlement.
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:17 PM
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Hmm, I had something longer about my personal situation but lost it. I will sum up.

Though I promote it here, I do not personally have 50-50 access, though custody is joint. My ex is simply disinterested in parenting after separation, much as he was during the last few years of our marriage. His other relationship, employment and hobbies were and are his priorities. We have what amounts to extensive right of first refusal, with him taking them when I have other obligations or events to attend, which I schedule around his schedule to the best of my ability. If he wants otherwise, he's never brought it up with me. I don't believe it's good to force children on a disinterested parent as it breeds resentment in all parties. If he was motivated and made the necessary sacrifices to be a better parent, that would be a different story. Maybe someday. He's still a big part of decision-making, but doesn't like commitment or actual effort.

Most of the people I know with young children still have intact marriages. A male neighbour had EoW when he moved to the area and now has 50-50 a few years later though I don't know him very well or details of how it happened. Other separated friends had teenagers who chose their residential parent, or abusive exes who did not get any custody. So not many data points from me.

But in general, yeah, 50-50 should be automatic for two sincerely interested and involved parents, and only needs to be deviated from when one is not. And yeah, sometimes a parent appears interested and involved on the surface, but their main focus is not on the kids, it is on the associated money or control that they may bring. Identifying them is important. Children should be raised primarily by parents who are into it for the children themselves.
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Old 11-28-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Sometimes I wonder if it's the mothers who truly want more than 50/50 or is it an automatic, maternal response that regardless of the situation they should have more simply because .. well...they're the mother. In reality many mothers could pursue careers of their own, take more time for themselves (reducing stress), etc., but unconsciously and from an evolutionary perspective, there could be that lingering sense of entitlement.
It's funny you should say this. I mostly agree with you about the automatic reaction, but don't see it as a sense of entitlement, I see it as a sense of obligation. Many mothers probably feel as I do, that we are the last line of parenting, the one who picks up the slack, the one who drops everything and steps up when no one else will. Maybe it's evolutionarily rooted, but if a child is sick, a father's attitude is often "I'll be the one to stay home if you can't," while a mother's is "I'll be the one to stay home unless you can." A mother more often prioritizes the children over her employment in choice of work hours and overtime, while a father most often chooses the job.

We could have a really interesting psychological exchange about this!

These priorities aren't initiated only by the parents either, it's societal. It's just so ingrained I don't know how we can ever fully overcome it. Doesn't mean we shouldn't get working on it though!
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:10 PM
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Problem with many of these custody disputes is when one or both parents decide to relocate. 50-50 may be fine and well if you live in close proximity to each other but I do not agree that children should be made to travel ridiculously long distances.

If 50-50 was default then what restrictions, if any, should be set for commuting distances?
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
It's funny you should say this. I mostly agree with you about the automatic reaction, but don't see it as a sense of entitlement, I see it as a sense of obligation. Many mothers probably feel as I do, that we are the last line of parenting, the one who picks up the slack, the one who drops everything and steps up when no one else will. Maybe it's evolutionarily rooted, but if a child is sick, a father's attitude is often "I'll be the one to stay home if you can't," while a mother's is "I'll be the one to stay home unless you can." A mother more often prioritizes the children over her employment in choice of work hours and overtime, while a father most often chooses the job.

We could have a really interesting psychological exchange about this!

These priorities aren't initiated only by the parents either, it's societal. It's just so ingrained I don't know how we can ever fully overcome it. Doesn't mean we shouldn't get working on it though!
Oh Rioe. You're writing is marvelous. I bet we could sit and have a titillating conversation about evolutionary genetics and its relation with our ingrained, cognitive notions (whether unconscious or not) of prescribed gender roles....stemming all the way back from hunter gatherer societies.

I'm glad you didn't misconstrue what I was trying to say. Yes, in addition to mother's, perhaps having a genetic predisposition (evolutionary) to having an automatic reaction to have more than a 50/50 relationship I agree that men, from that same perspective may choose work if the mother is available to care for a sick child.

"I'll be the one to stay home if you can't," while a mother's is "I'll be the one to stay home unless you can."

Whether we like it or not, evolutionary genetics and prescribed gender roles remain intertwined in our system. The men went out to hunt and the women cared for their infants.

But this is changing rapidly. More rapidly than our society can comprehend

This is also a great read, as of course we musn't discount the social cognitive theory and cultural influences.
http://www.focusintl.com/GD101-%20Social%20cognitive%20theory%20of%20gender%20dev elopment%20and%20differentiation.pdf

Gender development is a fundamental issue because some of the most important aspects of people’s lives, such as the talents they cultivate, the conceptions they hold of themselves and others, the sociostructural opportunities and constraints they encounter, and the social life and occupational paths they pursue are heavily prescribed by societal gender-typing.

It is the primary basis on which people get differentiated with pervasive effects on their daily lives.
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
Problem with many of these custody disputes is when one or both parents decide to relocate. 50-50 may be fine and well if you live in close proximity to each other but I do not agree that children should be made to travel ridiculously long distances.

If 50-50 was default then what restrictions, if any, should be set for commuting distances?
50-50 as long as both parents reside in the same school district. If you want equal access, you should make the kids your first priority and live near their school. Distance would depend on the size of the school's catchment area.

If you want 50-50 to be sustainable after the kids are teenagers and prefer to be near to friends instead of parents, you'd better make sure the two homes are a bikeable or walkable distance apart too so that both are near the friends.

As long as we're dreaming of setting up an ideal system!
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Old 11-28-2014, 02:50 PM
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We're in "Political Issues", so we can dream as much as we want, dammit!

My ex once moved from being across the street from the kid's school, to 25 km away. She was shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you, when she discovered that I wasn't amenable to changing the kid's school to accommodate her adventure in the country. After driving the kids to school two weeks out of every month, and living with the realities of being so far from the house, she cut short the grand experiment after 6 months, and returned to town. She now lives 5 minutes away, and the kids benefit all the more for it.
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Old 11-28-2014, 03:04 PM
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Political issues? I thought for sure I had started this thread in "General Chat". If I did I post it in Political Issues inadvertently, mods please move it to wherever you think it's appropriate.

If mods have moved it from general chat to political issues because they thought it belonged there more, thanks!!
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Old 11-28-2014, 03:05 PM
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In a perfect world ex spouses would be able to agree on visitation and custody but we all know the world isnt perfect. Its sad that one has to actually battle to spend time with their own children. And that theres actually emergency motions to do something as exciting as take your kids to disney. If people werent such idiots it would be ok but for some reason divorce = how to get away with being a jerk.
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Old 11-28-2014, 03:40 PM
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My kids are 13 and 16 now. I had about 80% in the beginning (they were 6 and 9) until I wanted it in writing upon which I received an email telling me I would no longer have them as much because of the financial implications to her. I responded with: If this was her version of a negotiation, I would not accept anything less than 50% and if she wanted to reduce my time to EOW she would have to take me to court to get it. She tried but after a few large bills from her lawyer she felt she had no choice but to give into me even though she lived and breathed for our kids. So after I had a good laugh in private because she had only been caring for them 20% of the time, we signed our custody agreement of 50/50 2 years later. We live within a 10-15 minute walk of each other with their high school in the middle. We do not co-parent, instead, we parallel parent and it is much more peaceful. I make the major decisions regarding education and health because she is disinterested in both. We exchange any and all info related to our kids but we do not discuss. We use the pro-rated set-off formula to calculate cs, no ss. 7 plus years later she is still bitter and angry but I don't care because she has failed in her attempts thus far to paint me as the bad guy in the eyes of our kids.
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