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  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Political Issues

Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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Old 11-28-2014, 09:28 AM
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Default Asking for 50/50

With all the talk about default 50/50 access, I wondered how many parents actually ask for it? My ex never asked for 50/50.

I think that people on this board are a select focus group. Many here are/were deep in conflict with another party or who are trying to educate themselves on the processes or those who are trying to protect their children or assets. We may not be an accurate sampling of the general population who is divorcing.

Having said that, anyone could spin their story. I could say that my ex never asked for 50/50. That he chooses his job first. That he has cancelled parenting time in favour of a vacation only a few months after separating, bash, bash, bash. Blah, blah, blah. I could angrily rant that he is a EOW guy by choice!!

Or I could speak in a positive way and explain that ex is a physician, who works long hours and is required to be on call at the hospital. He says that I am a great mom who took care of the kids for years while he was in school/worked and sees the benefit for the kids. He could have 50/50 with the use of many babysitters and time away from the children anyway but I believe that he thinks it is best for them to be with me. Not because he does not want them but because his scheduling is very difficult.

See the spin?

So, my question is this, how many Dads actually want 50/50? Obviously most on the board are/were fighting some sort of battle but "in real life" I have met many men who don't seem to mind EOW. Men who, even though I have explained the rights of the child, the better division of support money, etc, seem content with eow......

Wondering what others think.

Last edited by SadAndTired; 11-28-2014 at 09:30 AM.
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Old 11-28-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SadAndTired View Post
With all the talk about default 50/50 access, I wondered how many parents actually ask for it? My ex never asked for 50/50.

I think that people on this board are a select focus group. Many here are/were deep in conflict with another party or who are trying to educate themselves on the processes or those who are trying to protect their children or assets. We may not be an accurate sampling of the general population who is divorcing.

Having said that, anyone could spin their story. I could say that my ex never asked for 50/50. That he chooses his job first. That he has cancelled parenting time in favour of a vacation only a few months after separating, bash, bash, bash. Blah, blah, blah. I could angrily rant that he is a EOW guy by choice!!

Or I could speak in a positive way and explain that ex is a physician, who works long hours and is required to be on call at the hospital. He says that I am a great mom who took care of the kids for years while he was in school/worked and sees the benefit for the kids. He could have 50/50 with the use of many babysitters and time away from the children anyway but I believe that he thinks it is best for them to be with me. Not because he does not want them but because his scheduling is very difficult.

See the spin?

So, my question is this, how many Dads actually want 50/50? Obviously most on the board are/were fighting some sort of battle but "in real life" I have met many men who don't seem to mind EOW. Men who, even though I have explained the rights of the child, the better division of support money, etc, seem content with eow......

Wondering what others think.


You probably don't need to ask what I think, LOL.

I would have to say that most of the dad's I know do want 50/50, or something very close to that, and yes, you are right, work schedule can come into play.

I actually work with a guy who, for all intents and purposes, is an EOW. I asked him if that was what he wanted. He replied that his ex asked him to leave the house because she wasn't happy (no abuse), and that once he did, she began placing restrictions on when he could get the kids. At first she didn't like the house he was renting, then, when he started dating again, she refused to let him have the kids if his girlfriend was going to be around. She threatened to continue to withhold the kids until he agreed to all of her terms, which included EOW, with the occasional extra days threw in when she felt like it.

I asked him if he had considered fighting the matter in court, but he told me that he couldn't bear the thought of putting the kids through the process. He admitted that he should never have left the house but didn't realize he had a right to stay. He was quite pained as he started talking about how he's lucky to even get his EOW. He has to 'play nice' with his ex. He totally knows that he could fight it, but keeps worrying about what it will do to the kids. True to form, his ex refuses to work, and currently soaks up both spousal and full table child support to fund the dream.

She already sends him messages accusing him of not putting his kids first, simply because he decided to resume dating. She will offer the kids to him for a weekend so that she can go shopping in another town, and will then cancel at the last minute. The next week, she'll complain about how she does all of the parenting work. He's actually scared that she'll give him less time with the kids, so he pretty much does what she wants.

I know another guy who was going through a nasty separation with his ex. She told him one day that she didn't love, wanted him to leave the house, and then went to 'hang out' with his best friend for the day. They had two kids together. He refused to leave, self-repped, and got an interim 50-50. His ex attempted to start numerous fights with him, to the point that she even called the police, after she backed him into a corner and hit him. The police declined to believe one word of what she was saying. Then, she got her father to come by and try to intimidate him. This guys step-father actually said to him:

"You need to leave the house. You need to be a man and do what's right."

He told the stepfather that he was being a man by staying in the house until it was sold, and parenting the children, and the stepfather told him, predictably, that it was the mother's responsibility to worry about it. It was the dad's responsibility to leave.

So, I think your post raises some excellent points. Do men really want 50-50? Sure. Do all of them? No. Is it hard for a lot of them to get it if they want it? Yep. Do some men vindictively try to get 50-50 to hurt their ex? Absolutely. Do some men, like the guy from my work, basically give up because they are afraid of hurting the kids? Absolutely.

I would argue that we're not as 'select' as a focus group as you think. Dig into some past threads about this topic, and you'll see a bunch of disenfranchised dads who showed up here too late, and ended up with EOW when they really wanted to be parent their kids 50% of the time.
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:00 AM
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I am a Dad fighting for 50/50. Status quo has been 50/50 for 3 years. Still having to go to court because the STBX plugged numbers into online calculators 3 years ago and determined she would be getting half my income. She neglected to understand that with a 6 figure income similar to mine she would not have much of a case for SS entitlement. Also despite for reasons of HER work schedule 50/50 is the only workable arrangement unless she wants me to have more than 50% (which would be fine if necessary but my child would miss her mom and I can't think that is good for her) she assumed she would get full CS.

So I am fighting about money, it is clear and obvious to everybody involved.

Of my friends in similar boats, two dads flat out walked away and one has 50/50.

So 2 of each, not great numbers in my anecdotal evidence.
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:16 AM
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In my opinion theres also some misconceptions about it and lack of oversight/punishment for enforcing. My partner didnt ask for 50/50 because he didnt have a place to live when the divorce was finalized (long story) but agreed with joint custody with ample visitation (outlined in the agreement). As he has seen, getting access has been a struggle. If he had established himself right away maybe it might have been an option. His lawyer assured him he would still have ample access with the arrangement they signed. That lawyer has had to help him twice to enforce it. Now theyre teens and have their own say.

On the other hand, another friend has 50/50 and fought for it right from the get go. But because of the games his ex plays with the kids, he went a few months not seeing them when he fought to keep them from moving. Its back the way it should be but age has factored into both cases where ex says kids are old enough to decide.

Still another friend has the same but she and her ex get along fabulously so when their teen decided he wanted to skip staying at dads house across town, mom and dad sat down and discussed and dad agreed to move to the neighbourhood so kid could continue to hang with friends while at his house. This arrangement has worked perfectly and both parents have been able to work together in the best interest of the kids--even though they pretty much hate each other.

From my view in the cheap seats and what Ive read on this board, 50/50 is an option and its not that judges side one way or the other, its a case of animosity between parties. Youve got two people fighting over a kid, both providing a different scenario of whats best. The judge has to decide based on the evidence provided. Sadly that isnt always the best case. Why cant they say "hey 50/50 but lets give each other a lean in phase to find a place to live etc"

Its just sad that kids are viewed as property split in the divorce. And we have stupidity from organizations like OCL or CAS who are biased or unfair. Plus there are way too many parents using their kids to live a life they cant afford without cs or ss. You cant put a price on a parents influence in their life. And I say that as a woman who was without a father for 20 years. Divorce plays a role in development but being raised by one parent who hates the other played a much bigger role.

If you ask my partner he'll say his ex is a good mom and was able to provide stability in the matrimonial home. He didnt want to uproot his kids and force them to go back and forth all the time. But hindsight is 20/20 so now he understands he should have fought harder for 50/50 and attempted to stay in an expensive community even if he wasnt able to afford it so he could have continued that relationship with his kids. He has moments where he wonders if he could have countered the bs told to the kids by being around the corner and seeing them 50/50.

His ex has stated that he gave up on them, that he was angry and always unhappy, that she gave him vacations, a nice home etc and he ruined it and now hes trying to take away from her and the kids. And that hes moved on with her money and cant be bothered to pay for their happiness. (And yes she HAS said all of these things). Instead of saying their marriage didnt work, they werent right for each other but he still loves his kids and would do anything for them.

But for me the biggest question is: if courts always awarded 50/50, would it truly be a benefit to the kids?
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:20 AM
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There are a few dads I know who have 50/50 without having to fight for it.

There are a few dads I know who have 50/50 but had to fight in court to get it.

There are a few dads I know who have EOW but want 50/50, just don't want to go through the fight in court to get it.

There are a few dads I know of who have EOW and barely even want that.

There are a few dads I know of who have absolutely nothing to do with their kids.

My ex never wanted 50/50, he took off to the other side of the country though, so it wouldn't have been possible even if he wanted it. He needed the time to start his new family and have a couple of more kids. He was content with traveling to see our kids 2-3 times a year for a couple of years, and now doesn't even want to do that.
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:35 AM
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S to H is bang on.

When a spouse is shown the door.....and the door closes behind him/her there isn't a 300 dollar/hr. lawyer standing right there suggesting 50-50

First thoughts for men/women/gays are silly things like survival....food, shelter, maintain a job.

While the man/woman is busy building back to what it took a couple, years to create....he/she/it loses the 50-50

It's a generational thing for "mom was best"......current relationships are all over the place.

For mom (here) to ponder "if I was shown the door this is what I would do" is nice but she'd do exactly what the good doctor did.....move on with a new fractured life, do the best you can and try to avoid more conflict.

instead of "sex-ed"....high schools should teach relationship education because half the kids there are from divorce wars.

Parenting and Parents rights and responsibility would be a good class name.

Instead they teach how to have safe sex.....lmao
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:37 AM
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In my situation there was no child custody to argue over since our son was in his twenties when TSHTF. It would have been hellish for many reasons...

The Ex worked long hours on construction sites, came home exhausted and had little patience for anything. And before you start picking apart my intentions, I did my best to encourage him to spend quality time with the kid from the get-go. The ex was simply not into 'parenting' and pretty much left it up to me ... Old school mentality where men earned the bread and women baked it - and took care of the family.

I believe that 50/50 should be the default order in most cases and should only be debated when ''serious'' and provable problems exist with either parent.

Most divorced couples that I know have the EOW and seem to be ok with it. Honestly, I have seen a lot of dads who wanted nothing to do with their children once separation occurred (some before that).

It's good to see that young dads want to be hands-on father's and I hope that the court system will evolve to reflect that ... one day.
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Old 11-28-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
But for me the biggest question is: if courts always awarded 50/50, would it truly be a benefit to the kids?

Absolutely not.

50/50 only benefits the kids when both parents are loving, competent, and available.

The system should work in a way that allows interested and capable parents easy access to 50/50.

Right now, if one parent decides to be difficult, the other parent inevitably has to go to court and fight for it, even if they are loving and competent. That reality prevents lots of decent dads from making the effort. It enables substandard dads to walk away instead of trying to be better. That's the issue that I'm trying to highlight.

Last edited by Straittohell; 11-28-2014 at 10:46 AM. Reason: fixed wording of last sentence to add clarity
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Old 11-28-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
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Absolutely not.

50/50 only benefits the kids when both parents are loving, competent, and available.

The system should work in a way that allows interested and capable parents easy access to 50/50.

Right now, if one parent decides to be difficult, the other parent inevitably has to go to court and fight for it, even if they are loving and competent. That reality prevents lots of decent dads from making the effort. It enables substandard dads to walk away instead of trying to be better. That's the issue that I'm trying to highlight.
Right on. If kids witness conflicts then shared custody is not the best idea. The problem is the low likelihood of the dad getting the custody especially in tender years.

SadAndTired thats a good question. Most of men who I know have no custody because they are incompetent to raise the kids half the time and the number 1 reason is work, number 2 is they having fun instead. Some never tried to fight for custody believing they stand no chance in court. Unlike on this forum, shared custody is rare in my experience.
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Old 11-28-2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
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Right now, if one parent decides to be difficult, the other parent inevitably has to go to court and fight for it, even if they are loving and competent. That reality prevents lots of decent dads from making the effort. It enables substandard dads to walk away instead of trying to be better. That's the issue that I'm trying to highlight.

Thats the reality my partner has lived the last three years. He would use up every last dime he has to get time with his kids but it bites him because its spun as "your dad is mean to me". The last two times he sought legal intervention he didnt hear the end of it from his oldest about how cruel he is when mom was just trying to take care of them. Even when he asked her "do you not think I care? That I want to spend time with you? That its unfair I dont get to see you?" As he told me, I went through with the divorce to stop the emotional toll on the kids. Continuing to fight is just making it worse. You get beaten down enough you finally give up. Too bad its spun as "your dad cares more about his new life than you kids".

But then ten, 15, 20 years from now when they ask why dad didnt fight harder, whats the answer? It took me to 28 to realize why my father walked away and why he didnt bother fighting. MrT is right, they need to teach relationships in school. But I always thought "be kind to one another" was inherent.
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