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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #391 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 02:14 PM
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I guess the difference is, LF, that not many of us will ever use case law or be in a court room. If only 5% at most of couples end up in court, caselaw will not help us much.

What most of us, as parents, are truly focused on is the effects on our children.

I see it with the boyfriend's kids. He is an excellent dad. She is a barely adequate mom. She likes to yell and spank. Are the children thriving in a 50-50 environment? It is hard to know because maybe they would be even better off just at dads. Maybe they would be better off just with mom? Maybe she would step up her game if she had the kids all the time? Maybe she would be even more stressed out? Who knows? Maybe the kids are better off with him as the primary parent and her as EOW?

Maybe a consistent parenting time with one would be beneficial to reduce confusion between homes/rules but it will never happen. They are very different people. You said yourself that your ex is overly attached to your daughter. I'm sure she is parenting very differently than you and your home.

The lack of consistency makes children confused. I think it's an impossibility to compare 50-50 to other parenting schedules unless you are comparing one family to themselves. Comparing different situations will never be useful.

I do think 50-50 is necessary and the lesser of the evils in a separation. But just spouting case law doesn't recognize that these are children and families and people with real feelings and unique situations where multiple factors need to be considered.

And repeating numerous case laws just is reiterating a judge's opinion. That's all it is. A judge, one person, giving their opinion on the law. I think most parents are more interested on the effects on their kids. That is why no one is commenting on your case law.

Last edited by SadAndTired; 01-30-2017 at 02:21 PM.
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  #392 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 02:18 PM
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I can't see some posts due to the ever so amazing "ignore" button, but just a reminder to avoid personal attacks on character. Explain your stance and elaborate with case law, opinions, studies (actual studies), etc....oh and don't shy away from pointing out inconsistencies, etc with any personal experiences or opinions. It paints a clearer picture.

Thanks

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  #393 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
I can't see some posts due to the ever so amazing "ignore" button, but just a reminder to avoid personal attacks on character. Explain your stance and elaborate with case law, opinions, studies (actual studies), etc....oh and don't shy away from pointing out inconsistencies, etc with any personal experiences or opinions. It paints a clearer picture.

Thanks

LF32


Well actually that poster you are ignoring wasn't attacking any one, yourself included.

I really enjoy reading the cases you post LF, but lately I have been scrolling through walls of texts to find any relative information. It's unfortunate that it's getting to this point because I really thought this would be a great thread to read.

I agree that maybe you need to focus more on parents who don't ask for 50-50 and then all the sudden want the change. Why is it that so many Dads (sorry not trying to be sexist) are happy with EOW or whatever to start? Why are more Dads not pushing for equal access? To me the excuse of "I didn't know my rights" doesn't fly. When it comes to your children why do fathers let this happen?


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  #394 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:03 PM
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Just a quick note,

As Tayken often points out, judges such as Justice Pazaratz are making waves with current caselaw.

Caselaw is what drives change and is VERY significant and RELEVANT to this discussion.

Thanks again to the PM's thanking me for the caselaw. I think it would be silly to say caselaw isn't significant.
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  #395 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Well actually that poster you are ignoring wasn't attacking any one, yourself included.

I really enjoy reading the cases you post LF, but lately I have been scrolling through walls of texts to find any relative information. It's unfortunate that it's getting to this point because I really thought this would be a great thread to read.

I agree that maybe you need to focus more on parents who don't ask for 50-50 and then all the sudden want the change. Why is it that so many Dads (sorry not trying to be sexist) are happy with EOW or whatever to start? Why are more Dads not pushing for equal access? To me the excuse of "I didn't know my rights" doesn't fly. When it comes to your children why do fathers let this happen?


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Sorry you feel that way about the thread Berner.

I have to empty my PM box twice every second day from all the thank you's etc for the thread, from both mothers and fathers.

Please know that the select few who haven't liked any of my threads from day 1 .. are not the majority here.

This thread touches on FLR's, case law and opinions on both sides.

To answer your q's about fathers ... many are stuck in EOW's from being pushed in to an early agreement (yes it was dumb of them)..but now they don't know how to change it.

They run in to mothers (not trying to be sexist either) saying ... "I dont get along with you..so no 50/50"..or "My subjective opinion of your parenting is not good...so no 50/50". Or .. "I have status quo so eat my shorts".

Believe it or not there are a good percentage of mothers PMing me who had made a few mistakes....and they too are seeking ways to achieve 50/50. I',m assisting them greatly.

It gives me pleasure to know that this thread is helping so many, even if it isn't for a few members here.

P.S...if you don't like the thread...please don't spoil it for the many others enjoying it by coming on and muddying it up by saying you don't like it. Why even stop by? Just ignore it so that the many individuals benefiting from the content can continue to do so without your interruptions.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 01-30-2017 at 03:19 PM.
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  #396 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
I agree that maybe you need to focus more on parents who don't ask for 50-50 and then all the sudden want the change. Why is it that so many Dads (sorry not trying to be sexist) are happy with EOW or whatever to start? Why are more Dads not pushing for equal access? To me the excuse of "I didn't know my rights" doesn't fly. When it comes to your children why do fathers let this happen?
In my (extremely limited) experience and observation, men appear to not be as interested in babies and toddlers as women are. So if the parents separate when the children are young, the dad is fine with the mom doing most of the hard work of early nurturing when it's all diapers and bottles and naptime, then comes along later to want more time when the kids are old enough to amuse themselves or play sports.

I think we are still overcoming sexist societal attitudes when it comes to parenting. Women are expected to do it all, and while we're moving towards acknowledging men want to do it all too, today's grown men still weren't taught as much parenting when they were children thirty years ago. And when you feel you don't know what you are doing, it's natural to defer to the person who knows more.
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  #397 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Sorry you feel that way about the thread Berner.

I have to empty my PM box twice every second day from all the thank you's etc for the thread, from both mothers and fathers.

Please know that the select few who haven't liked any of my threads from day 1 .. are not the majority here.

This thread touches on FLR's, case law and opinions on both sides.

To answer your q's about fathers ... many are stuck in EOW's from being pushed in to an early agreement (yes it was dumb of them)..but now they don't know how to change it.

They run in to mothers (not trying to be sexist either) saying ... "I dont get along with you..so no 50/50"..or "My subjective opinion of your parenting is not good...so no 50/50". Or .. "I have status quo so eat my shorts".

Believe it or not there are a good percentage of mothers PMing me who had made a few mistakes....and they too are seeking ways to achieve 50/50. I',m assisting them greatly.

It gives me pleasure to know that this thread is helping so many, even if it isn't for a few members here.

P.S...if you don't like the thread...please don't spoil it for the many others enjoying it by coming on and muddying it up by saying you don't like it. Why even stop by? Just ignore it so that the many individuals benefiting from the content can continue to do so without your interruptions.


Sigh... clearly you didn't read what I even said. I stated I enjoyed the case law you post... what I don't enjoy is the amount of garbage one has to scroll through because you are busy repeating yourself and "calling out" certain posters.

I know you don't like people disagreeing with you and you attempt to twist the words of those who do. I don't really care how many times you have to empty your inbox, or whether it's positive or negative. It would just be nice to focus on the topic and be able to debate the topic (this is a political post right?) without people constantly being put down or called out because they don't agree with your points. A healthy debate has for and against but every time there is an against you and a few others repeat yourselves with posting the exact same case law over and over again and basically stating the other side of the coin is wrong. That is not a debate, that is an "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and evil"


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  #398 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
In my (extremely limited) experience and observation, men appear to not be as interested in babies and toddlers as women are. So if the parents separate when the children are young, the dad is fine with the mom doing most of the hard work of early nurturing when it's all diapers and bottles and naptime, then comes along later to want more time when the kids are old enough to amuse themselves or play sports.

I think we are still overcoming sexist societal attitudes when it comes to parenting. Women are expected to do it all, and while we're moving towards acknowledging men want to do it all too, today's grown men still weren't taught as much parenting when they were children thirty years ago. And when you feel you don't know what you are doing, it's natural to defer to the person who knows more.


I agree with that. And as more men step up and provide the parental duties when the children are young I think we will see change. The unfortunate part is, mom had to do all the tough years because dad wasn't ready or didn't want to learn or whatever and then all the sudden wants to change the arrangement. I believe parenting plans have to be updated as the children grow however that status quo gets people every time. Currently the law states status quo stands and a material change is required to change the parenting arrangement. That is when most people come wanting to fight for equal time, when the children are older. I'm not saying they shouldn't get it, every child deserves equal time with their loving parents, but one can't complain when they have let things be what they are for years. The law isn't on their side in these cases.


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  #399 (permalink)  
Old 01-30-2017, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berner_Faith View Post
Sigh... clearly you didn't read what I even said. I stated I enjoyed the case law you post... what I don't enjoy is the amount of garbage one has to scroll through because you are busy repeating yourself and "calling out" certain posters.

I know you don't like people disagreeing with you and you attempt to twist the words of those who do. I don't really care how many times you have to empty your inbox, or whether it's positive or negative. It would just be nice to focus on the topic and be able to debate the topic (this is a political post right?) without people constantly being put down or called out because they don't agree with your points. A healthy debate has for and against but every time there is an against you and a few others repeat yourselves with posting the exact same case law over and over again and basically stating the other side of the coin is wrong. That is not a debate, that is an "I am right and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong and evil"


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Well I obviously agree with this ^^

I would also like to see more of a conversation about what Rioe mentioned earlier - why are dads still waiting until the kids are older and easier to take care of to realize they want equal access time? Why is this still so prevalent?
I would also love to hear some conversations from real-life experience about the negative or positives associated with growing up in or currently having children in an unequal access arrangement. I think those two areas could be a great place to go next.


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  #400 (permalink)  
Old 01-31-2017, 12:00 AM
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I think it's become crystal clear who is for and who is against shared custody.

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