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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #271 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2017, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ange71727 View Post
Ok - point taken. Work on being clearer. I do have a lawyer and hopefully he can guide me in this respect.
Yes, a good lawyer should do this. But, the faster you can develop the skill the cheaper your legal fees will be.

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Originally Posted by Ange71727 View Post
I do have a tendency to include all info, relevant or not instead of getting to the point - my husband tells me this too, lol.
Human nature to do this. It is a part of how we function as emotional creatures. Part of core memory is emotion. Unfortunately, courts are not human.

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Originally Posted by Ange71727 View Post
Thank you for taking the time to read through my long-windedness and give me some great feedback on this thread as well as my other ones. I will have to sit tonight and re-read when I have some time.
Try to write a brief summary in point form what the key elements of your case are. Be brief. Then narrow the list down and merge the ones that have similar themes. Don't try to make them as brief as 140 character Twitter message cause they end up looking like Donald Trump nonsense. Try to keep them to a 3-4 line paragraph each.

Themes should be:

Custody (Medical and Educational)
Access (residency)
Child Support

Each point should address one of those 3 themes directly. Keep to the themes and try to narrow it down to have 4 key points per theme. (3*4=12 - see my logic)

Once you are done that. You need to make a compromises list for each of the themes. What are you willing to compromise on? You have to prepare to compromise on things. Knowing what you are willing to compromise on makes it easier for your lawyer to know where they can go when negotiating.

Negotiating a settlement is all about compromises.

Good Luck!
Tayken
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  #272 (permalink)  
Old 01-17-2017, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Unfortunately, courts are not human.
They're ran by humans. But yes, they do come off as aliens sometimes.

My advice to angie, you should be able to explain you situation in 2 - 3 sentences.

We have an agreement where I have the child on Monday tuesda and thursday and father has him on Friday until wednesday every week (or whatever). The provision of child support in our order expired (explain what this means and why) and the father has commenced a motion to change access. I am opposing this access because I don't believe there to be a material change in circumstances and I don't think that it would be in the best interests of the child to have more time with the father (and explain why). I know my only route is court and I have hired a lawyer. (this is assuming you've already done a cost analysis) is it worth it to spend tens and thousands of dollars and go through all of that trouble for the next 1, 2 or maybe even 3 years just to get that extra $100/month and to keep 65% access ?

Last edited by trinton; 01-17-2017 at 08:10 PM.
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  #273 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 05:44 PM
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Very interesting thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Without going into too much detail, I started out this process (in 2014) thinking 50-50 is great/fantastic/best for the kids/ etc and I've completely changed my thinking. I now believe in shared parenting, but not in 50-50. Granted, this is just my personal situation but reading Robert Emery's work helped solidify my beliefs. Emery About Children and Divorce.

I'll elaborate more later (gotta go pick up the kidlet / extracurriculars) but I do find a lot of the arguments made on 50-50 go right to what is 'fair', and not what is in the best interest of the children. To me, those are two totally different concepts and I look forward to you all throwing tomatoes at my arguments later tonight!
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  #274 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:01 PM
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Very interesting thread. Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and experiences.

Without going into too much detail, I started out this process (in 2014) thinking 50-50 is great/fantastic/best for the kids/ etc and I've completely changed my thinking. I now believe in shared parenting, but not in 50-50. Granted, this is just my personal situation but reading Robert Emery's work helped solidify my beliefs. Emery About Children and Divorce.

I'll elaborate more later (gotta go pick up the kidlet / extracurriculars) but I do find a lot of the arguments made on 50-50 go right to what is 'fair', and not what is in the best interest of the children. To me, those are two totally different concepts and I look forward to you all throwing tomatoes at my arguments later tonight!
Before I throw any tomatoes at you I'd like to know what access arrangement you found to be best for your child and why?

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  #275 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:35 PM
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Before I throw any tomatoes at you I'd like to know what access arrangement you found to be best for your child and why?

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Typing this from my phone in a parking lot so excuse any typos..

We go Wednesday to Sunday morning and Sunday AM to Wednesday school drop-off. So it's a 45-55% split. We want to split weekends (well, we did until recently, I'll get into that later) as we both want an 'off' day with our child. If any of us needs a full weekend for whatever reason, we just ask and are generally really flexible. I like it because I know exactly which days I have our child and can schedule things accordingly. I also have Sundays for myself to pamper and relax before I start a new week.

Our son has no idea what 50-50, 2-2-3, FLA, Maximum Contact Principle, etc. is or if his dad is more or less equal to me in terms of time. He just knows that dad comes on Sunday and he'll see me again on Wednesday. He's 6, though, so maybe that makes a difference.
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  #276 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:39 PM
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Typing this from my phone in a parking lot so excuse any typos..

We go Wednesday to Sunday morning and Sunday AM to Wednesday school drop-off. So it's a 45-55% split. We want to split weekends (well, we did until recently, I'll get into that later) as we both want an 'off' day with our child. If any of us needs a full weekend for whatever reason, we just ask and are generally really flexible. I like it because I know exactly which days I have our child and can schedule things accordingly. I also have Sundays for myself to pamper and relax before I start a new week.

Our son has no idea what 50-50, 2-2-3, FLA, Maximum Contact Principle, etc. is or if his dad is more or less equal to me in terms of time. He just knows that dad comes on Sunday and he'll see me again on Wednesday. He's 6, though, so maybe that makes a difference.
If I could get what you have, I would take it in a heartbeat. Except for the weekend arrangement. I prefer full weekends.

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  #277 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 06:56 PM
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If I could get what you have, I would take it in a heartbeat. Except for the weekend arrangement. I prefer full weekends.

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Not sure where you live but in ONtario, there are lots of holiday Mondays. So technically, my son's dad has more 'holidays' that fall on his time with our son. I have a few Fridays, but there are definitely more holiday Mondays.
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  #278 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 07:25 PM
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Not sure where you live but in ONtario, there are lots of holiday Mondays. So technically, my son's dad has more 'holidays' that fall on his time with our son. I have a few Fridays, but there are definitely more holiday Mondays.
Don't you guys alternate the weeks so one week he gets wed to sun and one week you? Is it that you always get wednesday to sun every week?



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  #279 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 09:18 PM
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I now believe in shared parenting, but not in 50-50. Granted, this is just my personal situation
50/50 definitely isn't for everybody and it's not absolute. But there's a reason that judges, such as Justice McLachlin In Young v Young [1993] 4 SCR 3, state
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It stands as the only specific factor which Parliament has seen fit to single out as being something which the judge must consider. By mentioning this factor, Parliament has expressed its opinion that contact with each parent is valuable, and that the judge should ensure that this contact is maximized
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Parliament's decision to maintain maximum contact between the child and both parents is amply supported by the literature, which suggests that children benefit from continued access....
In general, statistics and case law are beginning to reveal not only a pattern of healthier development in children, but also healthier parents with "equal parenting", as seen in this thread.

One thing I think we've all maintained from the beginning, is that equal parenting is not absolute and certainly not for everybody, but in my opinion it is a better option in general for most.

Your situation seems comfortable and healthy, I'm glad it's going well. Doesn't it feel great?

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To me, those are two totally different concepts and I look forward to you all throwing tomatoes at my arguments later tonight!
Tomatoes? Naa .. around here we throw facts, case law, family law rules and experiences. I started this thread to see both sides, so thank you for your input.
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  #280 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2017, 11:34 PM
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Thank you triton and LovingFather32 for your comments.

Our situation isn't unique or anything - our child thrives on a consistent schedule and quite frankly, I find schedules like 2-2-3, 2-2-5-5 completely insane. Would YOU like to change residences three times a week? If not, why are we asking the same of our children?

(again, this is just my opinion and what I know of our child. I realise some people like that kind of schedule because it's 'fair').

I want to say the following before people jump on me:

-I believe in the maximum contact principle, and I believe in shared parenting, I just think we've gone overboard with exact percentages as the guiding principle.

-Kids don't count overnights. Kids experience parenting not as a pie to be divided in halves, but as the quality time they experience with each parent.

-I agree with Tayken upthread that Family Law needs to be taken out of the hands of judges and into those of mental health professionals or people trained to deal with this kind of situation.

-People should be mandated to deal with each other as adults, NOT parallel parenting. (I have no idea how to go about reforming this, btw, but I do have some ideas..)

-I believe you can never really divorce your ex-spouse when there are children involved. People who think they can just ride off into the sunset without ever having to speak to 'that (insert expletive)' are not ready for co-parenting.

-I think parenting plans are living things that needs to change as the children get older and their needs change.

-I was actually really shocked to read the cases upthread about a dad going in front of a judge because he 'only' had 40% and was demanding 50% (I'm paraphrasing). The kids have a schedule, routing and a home/ headquarters that they are accustomed to. Divorce is hard enough - why are you inserting your ego into it by dragging someone to court for 10%? I seriously doubt his children's opinion of him or their long-term relationship will be negatively impacted by whatever time he felt he was missing out on.

Last - I work at a University and while I'm not a counsellor, my job often requires me to ask about students about their home situation. I'm always fascinated by how what they tell me about their parents divorce and how it has affected them, even after they've moved out. I would caution anyone who is approaching this with a fairness or entitlement lens. No one is saying you're a bad parent, just that your children are not pies who are to be divided in half just because your relationship broke down. The rancour and costs associated are, IMO, not worth it for all involved, especially the kids.

Thanks for reading! I'm ducking to avoid the tomatoes...
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