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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2014, 04:35 PM
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So all along, based on your knowledge of the mother's infidelity and willingness to absolve you of child support, it was reasonable to believe that the child was not yours.

Now that this request has come, insist on the paternity test. The more your ex resists it, the more you can believe she's not sure herself and is grasping at straws. But if the child is yours after all, you are on the hook and you must make a family decision from there. My advice would be to try to get to know the teenager as well as start paying some CS, retro to the date you received the request. Offer table CS to start with, then once you get to know the girl, you'll know what is reasonable for section 7 expenses. Going to court to moan about how unfair it is based on your current family is probably just going to cost you legal fees.

This girl deserves to know that you didn't abandon her, that you want to love her, and that she has siblings to meet. She's probably going through a lot, if her mother has told her about approaching you.

Having this come out of the blue feels unfair to you, but try to get over feeling like a victim. The true victim in this is a teenager who has been denied a proper father figure and a father's affection and support by her mother all her life.
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Old 12-03-2014, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
But if the child is yours after all, you are on the hook and you must make a family decision from there. My advice would be to try to get to know the teenager as well as start paying some CS, retro to the date you received the request. Offer table CS to start with, then once you get to know the girl, you'll know what is reasonable for section 7 expenses. Going to court to moan about how unfair it is based on your current family is probably just going to cost you legal fees.

This girl deserves to know that you didn't abandon her, that you want to love her, and that she has siblings to meet. She's probably going through a lot, if her mother has told her about approaching you.

Having this come out of the blue feels unfair to you, but try to get over feeling like a victim. The true victim in this is a teenager who has been denied a proper father figure and a father's affection and support by her mother all her life.
^^^ Once again - we don't know this to be true. Maybe Mom deliberately kept Dad away from Kid. Maybe Dad made no effort at all to see Kid or support her in any way. Maybe both parents should have done better or done differently over the past decade and a half. Maybe there is no villain. It's pointless to attribute motives based on third-hand accounts from parties who have big investments in something that happened fifteen year ago.

What matters is that Dad has an obligation to financially support Kid (if Kid is indeed his, based on paternity), and that Kid should have the chance to get to know her biological father - in whatever way makes sense to her and her parents.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by stripes View Post
I can imagine that this is a big shock to the OP - both the impending financial hit and the emotional stuff, how to relate to a daughter he hasn't seen in 15 years plus reawakening memories of a difficult breakup. I hope he's got some psychological support in addition to legal advice.
Thank you. I have some divorced friends who have been divorced who have given me advice along the way. I found its tough to get a family lawyer in the city where she and the kid reside, a few werent willing to talk to me because I'm not local.

I haven't really spoken to a mental health professional about the whole scenario. I've spoken with friends but that's it.
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Old 12-03-2014, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post

Now that this request has come, insist on the paternity test. The more your ex resists it, the more you can believe she's not sure herself and is grasping at straws. But if the child is yours after all, you are on the hook and you must make a family decision from there. My advice would be to try to get to know the teenager as well as start paying some CS, retro to the date you received the request. Offer table CS to start with, then once you get to know the girl, you'll know what is reasonable for section 7 expenses. Going to court to moan about how unfair it is based on your current family is probably just going to cost you legal fees.
.
Not to be rude, I'm sure you're well meaning, but why would I offer to pay Table CS right off the bat? That's not negotiating. Table is a guideline, and my understanding is that less than half of all payors pay table amounts. Among my divorced friends only one of them pays or receives table, the rest see way less. The one who pays table has also has an extenuating arrangement with his ex.

Since the break up, she moved to another city within the province. Factor in that getting to know the kid involves me driving 6-7 hours each way for a weekend visit and running up hotel bills between gas hotel, and food a visit is going to cost $300-$400. To my lawyer, that's a case for reduced table, or I'd never be able to afford a visit. That's why my lawyer asked that my ex be held liable for costs of denied visits.

The section 7 expenses being requested, for extra curriculars exceed what we pay for extra-curriculars for all three of my children with my wife combined.

My lawyer believes that a judge will deny post-secondary or delay making a decision until the child is ready for post-secondary. I paid my own way through university. My ex ran up student loans and defaulted on them.

Part 2 is every dollar of CS will be coming out of money that is currently paying for my autistic son's therapy. So its taking from one need to pay for another. I have to live with my son's angry outbursts. I have to deal with his classroom issues - not my ex. The therapy has been helping him. I haven't had to pick him up early from school due to behaviour so far this year, he will sometimes present in class now.

My own expenses are not extravagant. We have 9 and 2 year old cars, live in an older house that needs some TLC, our grocery bills are higher than the normal family due to dietary needs within our household. We have had 3 family vacations in the 13 years that we've been together.

To be honest, if someone would say - ok the respondant has 4 kids. Table amount for 4 kids is $X. So support would be $X/4. I could live with that amount. Its more than I'd want to pay, but factors in the fact that I have other kids in the equation.
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Old 12-03-2014, 06:02 PM
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nfcrever: In your first post you say that the mother "absolved you of support" - what exactly does that mean? Legal document drawn up and signed by both of you and filed in court somewhere?

I think it would be prudent of you to start a savings account and sock some money in there in the event that your lawyer is incorrect. I would strongly urge you to get a second legal opinion on this one because I find it hard to believe that a judge would tell you to intentionally ignore child support. I have no personal experience with child support matters whatsoever. However, I believe your lawyer should have told you that everything is always about "the best interests of the child."
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Old 12-03-2014, 06:04 PM
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Unfortunately you don't get to negotiate the guidelines. If your ex pushes this to court and you are the father of this child, you will have to provide TABLE support unless you have more than 40% time with the child, which a 15 year old will make up her own mind. You better get use to the fact that you may end up paying table support for this 15 year old and barely (if at all) see her. As for reducing your CS due to travel costs, that may not even be an option because the court will not force a 15 year old to have contact with you, especially when you have been absent for 15 years (whatever the circumstances, it really doesn't matter)

You are not a judge and do not get to dictate how much you will pay. Unless you have a case for undue hardship your chances of having CS reduced are slim. Do you have a cell phone? Cable? Sat? Internet? anything above basic needs, you will have a hard fight for undue hardship.


Section 7 is a very different story than CS. Section 7 can be negotiated and maybe set at a fixed amount, both your income and the ex's income will come into play as well and you will pay based on the ratio of your two incomes.

Just because some of your friends pay a reduced amount doesn't mean you will. If them and their ex's negotiated a lower amount that is their deal, but the guidelines are set and your ex is under no obligation to take less than guideline amount.

Curious to know what lawyer is telling you right off the bat that you can get your CS reduced because of travel costs. Sounds like a lawyer is blowing smoke.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2014, 06:20 PM
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Umm, you're going to be paying table support.

Table support isn't a "guideline" its the Law and is only deviated in exceptional situations.

You have to prove undue hardship, nobody cares that your autistic child is not getting the care he needs, do you think you are the first in this situation?
What is undue hardship - probably nothing you ever imagined...

I agree back support will be limited.... but she might play the "I couldn't find him card" or some other excuse...

I agree also travel costs (if they are extraordinary) can used to reduce CS but its money out of your pocket anyways.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2014, 06:47 PM
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Sorry, it just looks like she wanted nothing to do with him, and now just wants money. If she wanted the kid to have a relationship with him, she could have initiated that, and her request for support, a long time ago.
Why is it this mother's responsibility to initiate a relationship between this child and her father?

I seriously cannot understand the mentality of someone who signs paperwork signing away their parental rights with the idea that they're escaping the financial support of a child that might be theirs?

I don't have a lot of sympathy. This OP didn't bother to get a DNA test and couldn't be arsed to try to have a relationship with what could be his own child. And now that he has more children...he's trying to complain about the possibility of having to pay support for the first kid he might have made...well sorry, you don't get to pick and choose which children you financially support. If you have children it is your obligation to support them. I'm not buying the rumors about her sleeping with the landlord...so what? If the OP slept with her too, there's a possibility that its his. Be a man and get a test.

I can't imagine what it would be like to potentially be the offspring of someone who thought this way. I'd feel extremely abandoned.

If I were this OP, I'd get a DNA test and immediately start paying support if its positive. As for retroactive support, I think he owes it...always did. She may or may not get it but she definitely deserves it.

Whatever happens...I wish better for this child. Pathetic.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2014, 07:12 PM
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I'm waiting to hear the answer to my question - what sort of document was executed that absolved him of forever paying child support?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-03-2014, 07:44 PM
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I'm waiting to hear the answer to my question - what sort of document was executed that absolved him of forever paying child support?
She had drafted up a document it was complied by the walk in clinic at Ottawa U law school. I have a copy and so does she.

Lawyer says it's not enforceable, but establishes and expectation and willingness on the part of the ex.
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