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Old 01-27-2011, 11:57 AM
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Default I am new.... help!!

Hello all!!
I just stumbled on this site while researching my rights in Family Law. It has been most helpful so far and have learned alot so far!! Thank you to all for your great info!!
A little History...

I was with my husband since I was 17 years old (1996). I was new to the province and we met soon after arriving in Ontario. Before the birth of our first daughter, my parents transferred back to my home province of Ontario leaving me here, pregnant and with virtually no support system aside from my husband. I graduated high school with honors and he was in College when we had baby #1. I stayed home with her, alothough working menial jobs as he was always in complete control of the finances and I was still expected to earn money for "my bills". Anything required for kids, formula, diapers, food etc were MY responsibility as well as a few other bills that we had for the family home. If I needed diapers and asked him to pick them up on his way home (as we had only one car) he would ensure that I was "paying him back" or just refuse and say I could go when he got home. Always with children in toe!!
I was to provide reciepts and got grief for any thing I did buy that he didnt authorize (with MY money) and we had more of a father/daughter relationship than a marriage. We had another daughter before we got married in 2004.
I wanted to go to school but each time I found a way I could, he countered with several reasons I couldnt. I relented and tried my best to earn as much as I could. When I earned more, another bill would be added to the list of "my bills" to ensure I still had nothing. He makes great money and for years travelled as part of his job, leaving me dependant to rely on his graces to provide enough to get through till he was home. If i bneeded groceries, he estimated the cost and gave me exactly that, and i was to budget accordingly. I decided in 2006, after secretly taking courses at night when I was "working" to better my chances of self sufficiency, that I was finished being intimidated and controlled by him. I got a juob as a clerk in a local hospital. I had very few friends left as I was never allowed to go anywhere without a guilt trip, so I was virtually on my own. We agreed to councelling and decided to try for the girls.
After really making an effort to do all they had recommended in councelling and him not changing a bit, things started to steer back into the feelings of helplessness. Second class in my own home. We had our third daughter in 2008.

Now, I must add that the downpayment for the first home bought in 1999, was a gift from my uncle. He used it to payy off HIS bills to better qualify to a motrgage and my bills were left unpaid. My name was NEVER on any property we owned. All were in his name as my credit was used as the reasoning, my credit being damaged by not being able to always pay my bills. My fault for allowing in retrospect.

Finally, in 2009, while he was away on yet another business trip, it clicked. I realized what it was like to not have to go to bed at 11pm when he did. Saw that I was more than capable as well as deserving to be indeoendant. I lost 21lbs that month and slept very little but when he came home, I told him that I could not do this anymore and that I was leaving.

Here is where my lack of "balls" came in.

In the separation agreement, That HE wrote, I agreed to sign off on any interest in the marital home as he stated in no uncertain terms was HIS and he would not leave. I signed off on his pension and RRSPs, as well as agreed that no child support would be paid by either at this time. I left with nothing but an agreement that I would share our girls and we came up with a schedule based on my schedule as I could keep them more during the day and save daycare. I also agreed to pay full daycare for the days that they did attend. This was in July of 2009. I agreed with the girls at the heart of my thinking as we could not get along is I made him pay any money, so I agreed for the relationship between us for the girls to sign. It did say though that the CTB stays in my name as it had always been... he considers this support he is allowing to justify no payment from him.
The following month I en=mailed saying that I wish I could do this all on my own but I need his help in paying half of the already subsidized (by me keeping them most days) daycare cost. The cost at the time was $400/mth. He countered that he pays all the medical insurance through work for the girls (I was still on plan) along with other reasons that were invalid that he needs not pay. Instead played on the guilt end saying that he would lose everything including the house that we agreed was in the girls best interest to remain in at least half the time. I also agreed to keep them in the same school, a rural school in his district as this again was what they were used to and ensured some normalcy in a difficult situation. So i relented... every time I asked for help,always in writing, he would alwasy answer that he cant afford it and that this was my choice... live with it. Always playing on my guilt reminding me that he has the girls half the time and needs to keep his house, 2 cars etc, as it is the price paid for my decision.
I claimed bankruptcy in Sept of 2010. I rent. And yes have moved 3 times since July of 2009. I lived close to him at first, but the landlord moved her sister in 11 mths later so I had to move. The next place was far, like almost 45 mins away from their school/daycare. But I held up my end, driving them to and from school as well as to him as he refused to drive and incur the extra gas $. Three months later the house was on the market and I was forced to move again. Now I am fairly close, about 10 mins but rent is high and costs are not included. I am barely holding on and I decided it was time. I left him because I was tired of being a doormat, and for the last 1.5 years I have continue to allow him to call all the shots and intimidate me into agreeing with what he wants. Enough!!! I need to stand up!!!

So....

On January 21st 2001, I sent him a letter, saying that i am soory but I need to get child support as I can no longer stay above water on my own. Asked for below table amount which after calculations would be $645, I offered $500.00. Also instead of portion of extra expences based on income, I offered $250.00/mth in daycare as I pay $500 on average now not fdactoring summer but I will eat that i guess. I also asked for half of out of pocket for snowsuits/medical/dental costs as well, not the percentage based on income that I believe is the norm. I am willing to keep all custody agreements we had before.. oh yeah I also stated in my offer that the CTB was to remain with me as it has always, as this was always his main threat when i asked for money. The free legal advise I recieved informed me that the support payor is not able to claim this anyway, but without adding fuel to the fire, I said it remains as is as it always has been.

He declined.

Threatening with lawyers and selling his assets to fight me in court, as he knows I have none!!! I offered mediation and informed him we can do this in court even, without lawyers, but he is tire kicking and stalling now. The only thing he suggested was to use Collaborative Lawyers. I researched it and declined as it requires me to sign a contract NOT to go to court and I pay money I dont have to secvure a lawyer that if my ex is dishonest and doesnt disclose fully or decides he is not willing to agree, The lawyer that I have paid for cannot represent me!!! No thanks.

So, basically I am here to learn how and what can happen at both ends of the spectrum. Any advice or info is greatly appreciated.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:22 PM
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You share the kids 50/50.

How did you come up with the CS amount of $645. How do you know what his income is (what is it), what is your income? Did you use the offset method of CS?

All non section 7 expenses (like clothing), should be shared 50/50 if you are using the set off method for CS. Medical is according to income.

I must admit that you have painted quite a picture of domination - but I hope you realize that is your fault, not his. You are responsible for your actions, or lack thereof, including the separation agreement you signed that he wrote. So hopefully you have learned from this and will be true to yourself in the future and not make decisions that you later regret to please others. They were your decisions to make however.

CS should be simple - yearly adjust based on incomes of both of you (or a set number if you think he will continually hide income etc making it a yearly stress). You subtract the difference in CS table amounts (aka the set off method). What he can or can't afford etc, is not your problem, and he should take care of himself and not ask you to help him, you're not his spouse anymore, but you are raising kids together and you should share that cost in proportion to your incomes.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:29 PM
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Trust me I know my faults. There is history factored into my decisions, but regardless of my errors, I am attempting to justify it now.
I mis-typed. I am estimating his income at $65000 basing it on no OT and no raise since 2009. This is not the case but it was the closest thing to fact that I had. My income is $32000. According to Ontario child support tables he would owe me $1268/mth and I would owe him $632/mth based on 50/50. The remainder is $636/mth not the $645 I originally posted. Again, how do i calculate percentages to see if we meet the 60/40% min. threshold??

Last edited by baclayton; 01-27-2011 at 02:41 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:45 PM
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Did you get any legal advice when you signed HIS separation agreement? If not, you have have a chance to have it overturned. You threw away SO MUCH, and probably it is not too late to fix it - only 1.5 years have passed. It's worth talking about this with a lawyer.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:45 PM
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Also, As for section 7 expenses... how are you supposed to get that done fairly?? I buy a snowsuit for my girls and give him a receipt, as I have done, and he challenges it saying that he would not have spent that on a snow suit... Then what?? Clothing, he refuses to give the responsibility to purchase all their clothing to me, if asked to pay half, als=ways nickel and dimeing to get out of it. He wants to be able to get clothes too for them, which is fine except that I am paying half for clothing that doesnt fit or he just gets hand me downs and says, you pay your I got mine. Losing battle. How can that be inforced?? In my offer I put all snowsuits etc to be purchesed by me at REASONABLE COST and 50% due within 30 days w copy of receipt for his records... I am at a standstill with him!!
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:49 PM
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A snowsuit isn't a section 7 expense. If you were signing the kids up for a winter sport that required special outfits and equipment that would qulaify, you'd also have to get his consent prior to signing them up and vice versa.

Clothing also doesn't go into section 7 expenses, those are daily expenses which are covered under child support. If you are sharing the kids 50-50 then you are responsible for clothing them when they are with you and he is responsible for clothing them when they are with him, thus you are each free to spend what you want on clothes for your place and don't worry about what the other spends.

This whole arrangement sounds rather tedious and ridiculous.

Last edited by blinkandimgone; 01-27-2011 at 03:08 PM. Reason: the voices told me to...
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:49 PM
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Thanks Dinkyface but really the material things I could care less about. I wanted to get out and not fight, PERIOD! I didnt care who owned title to the house as lonf=g as the kids could remain there at least part of the time as it is routine and stable for them. Also that enabled them to remain in their current school... IMO also in their best interest. I dont care about anything in that agreement that doesnt have to do with our kids. I will chalk the rest up to an expensive learning experience. I did what i could to maintain civility between us. Yes, he came out on top, but all i wanted was out!!!
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:55 PM
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ok thanks for your opinion but I dont really care to be demeaned for it. I wasnt asking your approval, rather I was and still am asking for how calculations are made to determine the 60/40-50/50 threshold. It may seem to you the arrangement tedious and ridiculous but reall it is routine for them and us. It has been this way since day one and have no desire to change the schedule end of it. I must say though that I joined this site for information purposes to educate me on the processes, not to be talked down to and belittled for my choices. Walk in my shoes before casting judgement. I am trying to rectify the agreement that was made, and yes, agreed to by me. Perfection was never implied here on my part. but nice to have imperfection pointed out.
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:14 PM
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Over-react much? You sound like a real peach to try and work things out with. There was nothing anywhere in my post that was demeaning.

It IS ridiculous and tedious for each of you to have to approve every dime the other spends on clothing for the children. I can only imagine how much time you spend deciding who pays for each and every sock, and then chasing each other down to get your money back. But hey, if that's your routine and it works for you than have at it! No idea why you bothered to ask advice if it's working so well for you.
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baclayton View Post
ok thanks for your opinion but I dont really care to be demeaned for it. I wasnt asking your approval, rather I was and still am asking for how calculations are made to determine the 60/40-50/50 threshold. It may seem to you the arrangement tedious and ridiculous but reall it is routine for them and us. It has been this way since day one and have no desire to change the schedule end of it. I must say though that I joined this site for information purposes to educate me on the processes, not to be talked down to and belittled for my choices. Walk in my shoes before casting judgement. I am trying to rectify the agreement that was made, and yes, agreed to by me. Perfection was never implied here on my part. but nice to have imperfection pointed out.
Translation ------> I didn't hear what I wanted to hear so I am insulted.
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