Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Introductions

Introductions If you're new to the forums, drop by and introduce yourself.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:00 AM
hadenough's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,468
hadenough is on a distinguished road
Default

It seems to me that the days of "free consultations" w/lawyers (unless personal injury that works on contingency) are over. There's not a free lawyer (consult) out there ANYWHERE in my experience.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:07 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Check my member name...
Posts: 294
torontonian is on a distinguished road
Default

Google search for free consultation+lawyer+divorce, for Toronto:
toronto free consutation lawyer divorce - Google Search
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:32 AM
cbarker78's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 211
cbarker78 is on a distinguished road
Default

hi there

I'm in a similar boat, where stbx and I are amicable and have worked out our own agreement. We have chosen not to involve lawyers....

We drafted our own agreement based on a DIY book I found at Staples, and then after reading & researching we amended, add/removed different pieces to make it fit what we needed it to....

For us, I signed off on equalization - nothing to equalize, declined even looking at SS (don't need it, don't want it), and we drafted our own CS which came out less then Guidelines amount... when I had posted about this in my intro, some didn't seem to take it too well, and that's fine..... this is the agreement that works for us and that's all that matters. LOL In our situation, I made it crystal clear from the very beginning that in no way and at no time am I out to screw him over, or to bleed him dry of everything. It's not who I am, and that BS just leads to hurting the kids. ((mine are 6 & 3)) To me, this is all about how to make it as "easy" and smooth for the kids as we possibly can, and nothing more than that!!

For me, I think the most important thing is that if the two people splitting can keep those open lines of communication, they have a really good shot at the situation not turning into a nightmare..... While I am also in just the beginning phases, I would think that if there were a change in circumstances down the road an amended agreement (showing which sections changed) would suffice if you and him are still amicable. Have it signed & witnessed, and file it....

Best wishes & good luck!!
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:51 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,486
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Opened my account here a while back but didn't quite know what to say or where to start. Seems like one way or another, we have the same woes. So, i just wish to convey that i feel content to be here, amongst all of us, kindred spirits...
Welcome to the Forum. Hopefully you will get some guidance from the members. There are some key people I highly recommend you keep top of your list when reading over suggestions:

Mess
HammerDad
NBDad
Gary

In my humble opinion they all have an excellent perspective on Family Law, separation and divorce. Although at times you will find people here a bit "to the point" always remember that for the most part people are trying to help you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
First time for me so call me a newbie.
There is a first time for everything. Unfortunately seperation and divorce isn't one of those "first times" that anyone really wants to be involved in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Working on first draft of separation agreement (Ontario)...quite overwhelming ~ the form...so i dropped it
There are excellent resources out there on how to frame and build a separation agreement. As you have not mentioned children and only property and financial settlement it isn't as complex as some of the other questions you will see posed on the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
for a bit and conducted a property inventory room per room, plotted things on an excel sheet :-) and identified which ones i want to keep and which he may want to keep. Some discussions took place on this already so it looks like we won't have a major problem on who gets what...except perhaps that charming cherry dining set...LOL.
For the items in dispute one recommendation that is often made by really qualified mediators is to put them on a list and make it a silent auction. You each associate what you think the value of the item is on your list and exchange lists. The highest bidder gets the item. I would rank the items on a scale of 1-10 and depending on the number of items on the list limited to a specific number of 10's allowable, 9's, etc... That way you don't get back a list of all 10s from the other party.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Kidding aside, my first issue deals with CHRONOLOGY: effectively, which one really first ~ like really! We both work for the federal government (hence pension split a separation item) but anticipate the pension calculation to take quite a bit of time in time to be able to include any provisions surrounding it within the separation agreement, BUT to apply for the pension split, we need to complete a separation agreement as a supporting document.
New rules apply and you both can execute consents prior to the separation agreement under the new pension reform bill to get a full statement of your pensions. This makes equalizing the pensions much easier.

It is even hard to determine the value of each other's pensions as this information is rarely and easily accessible. New rules make it much easier... So long as you agree and sign the consents for each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
So this is a chicken and egg question . Appreciate some input for those who have experienced this.
The equalization of pensions doesn't have to be done right away. You also don't have to have a full separation agreement to seperate. You will need closure on all the equalization for a divorce.

Many people have a hard time differentiating between "separation" and "divorce". Separation is two people living separate and apart. This can happen while you both still live in the same house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
My second issue deals with lawyers. Logically i think we need one each to have a fairer representation, but do we, really?
Yes. You don't need a lawyer to write the agreement but, each of you should seek independent legal advice on what you come to agreement on so you fully understand what it means.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
If we come to terms with all items in the separation agreement and the only thing a lawyer needs to do is to determine the fairness within the terms we agreed upon under Ontario family law?
100% correct. The lawyer will provide you something that they reviewed it with you and you are under no undue influence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Can one lawyer effectively look after both our interests? Could save us some $?!? Appreciate some comments here.
250-800 / hour. If you are not dealing with custody and access of children and just financials... I would plan for 2-3 hours a the lawyers time. This should be balanced against how amicable you have been with the other party over reaching the agreement. You don't seem to have any animosity and moving in the right direction so I provided a conservative time frame for my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Well, there are a lot of us trying to get a slice of your time in this forum and i don't wanna monopolize your time. So i will end my query here and hope that someone takes notice of my post and lends a helping hand!
Hope this helps!

Good Luck!
Tayken
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 10:07 AM
Tayken's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,486
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Thanks hadenough. Yes, children: two (ages 20 and 11)...

Question #1 concerns custody and principal residence. A lot of materials out there but can't find info on bottom line implications i.e., does having joint legal and physical custody have any TAX or OTHER implications?
Custody - Decisions about the children. (Education, emotional and physical health, activities, etc...)

Access - How much time either parent gets to spend with their children.

Joint Legal Custody: This is where both parents are equally involved in making decisions about the children (custody).

As you seem to be getting along with the other parent Joint Legal Custody would be the route to go. Both parents should be equally involved in the major decisions about their children. Today it takes an extreme case to demonstrate that either parent should have sole custody.

Access is where the elements of Tax Law lie. If you have any access schedule for your children in the 60% (with one parent) and 40% (with the other parent) the CCBT and deductions should be split.

This is where a lot of people get confused in the terminology of divorce.

Joint Legal Custody in the model of "Shared Parenting" with joint residency on a 50-50 access schedule.

So, this would mean that both parents are working together to make decisions about their children transparently with each other and the children reside with both parents. No one parent should, nor would they in a "Shared" model make a major decision without consulting the other parent first.

Joint Residency - a much better term to use. This means that the children in question reside at both parental residences. There shouldn't be a debate about "primary residency". On a 50-50 basis the concept of "primary residency" looses a lot of lustre because the children technically "reside" with both parents.

Primary Residency - Generally a term that is used to fight over. The courts and professionals are moving towards the concept of "joint residency" in access schedules that meet the 60-40 threshold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Like, if our circumstances change later and become acrimonious. How do we provide for shifts in custody arrangements within the separation agreement;
This would start to lead you towards:

Full Joint Custody in the model of "Parallel Parenting" with joint residency on an 50-50 access schedule.

When things become "acrimonious" then more terms to the parenting and what should be disclosed, when and how parents should "get along" is better defined under a parallel parenting model. If you search the board you will find links to parental agreements that are free that overview in detail what a parallel parenting plan entails.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
do we just draft another later if things change? I understand the issue that concerns many is 'enforcement' so i am trying to risk-manage it by providing for it NOW within the legal agreement.
Don't over "risk manage" the situation. Start with a solid and normal parenting plan and as material changes in circumstances come up you can deal with those. There are a lot of really great books that outline how to write a parenting plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Some proactive clause to allow for changes in our arrangements in case the one we have now is not going to work.
Predicting the future is hard. Seperation and divorce is about change. Children change and the world changes. Don't fret on the minor details of trying to "manage change". Everyone involved in the matter, especially your children, have to adapt to change. It is a big change for everyone involved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Question #2: what about this notion of "principal residence" for the child: any adverse or negative ramifications?

I would like to provide assurance to my soon to be ex that if our kids take up principal residence with me, it will not create any negative implications for him. But i want to write in the kids' principal residence is with ME.
I would recommend using the term above that I sighted of "joint residency". Your son should feel like he has two homes and be as comfortable in both homes as any one single home. Principal residency or primary residency isn't really a major concern until one parent moves out of the school district or entirely out of the court's jurisdiction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bFREE2012 View Post
Question #3: Related question is still around support but this is for an older child. What to do with the 20 year old in terms of the 'support' clauses within the separation agreement: an article says 'supporting your children is a life-long responsibility, and it doesn't normally end when they turn 18 as many believe. I just want to make sure this is provided for within the document...or am i being too anal about this part?
You will have to split any post secondary education on a balance difference of your income. Support is paid but, it breaks out differently for an adult child in post secondary education. The 20 year old will be expected to contribute to his education (loans, work, etc) as well as both parents. The best thing to do about child support for an adult child in school is to have the child support owing by both parents paid directly to the child.

Good Luck!
Tayken
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 10:42 AM
cbarker78's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 211
cbarker78 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Welcome to the Forum. Hopefully you will get some guidance from the members. There are some key people I highly recommend you keep top of your list when reading over suggestions:

Mess
HammerDad
NBDad
Gary

In my humble opinion they all have an excellent perspective on Family Law, separation and divorce. Although at times you will find people here a bit "to the point" always remember that for the most part people are trying to help you.


Hope this helps!

Good Luck!
Tayken
And as evidenced in these replies, add Tayken to that list of members to watch!!

This group of members have really "been there done that" and are a wonderful source of information!!
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:05 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ottawa
Posts: 25
2bFREE2012 is on a distinguished road
Default

thanks, torontonian, for the quick and sage advice
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:10 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ottawa
Posts: 25
2bFREE2012 is on a distinguished road
Default

Wow...such detailed and line per line...am so happy i found this forum...thanks, Tayken, hadenough, cbarker78...
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:14 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ottawa
Posts: 25
2bFREE2012 is on a distinguished road
Default

oh i missed to thank u, access dad
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:15 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: ottawa
Posts: 25
2bFREE2012 is on a distinguished road
Default

thanks, printed them off today...will send off asap..tx also for advising re: timing...this helps a lot
Closed Thread

Tags
chronology, number of lawyers


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:47 PM.