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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 12:15 PM
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Aden is on a distinguished road
Default being objective....

I find that being objective about what i know helps me..although my heads a mess over what has been happening..I know some things..this keeps me from getting to adversarial and negative towards my ex..This may help you..or you may think i am nuts...either way..here goes..
1-I own up to my share of our marriage issues...and I realise that I had my own issues that I need to ask forgivness for...

2-I know she`s a great Mom-- yes she has been funny about me being with the kids recently or even talking to them on the phone but...she carried them for nine months and has a connection just as strong as I do in my own way..and if I look at it objectively..she must have a reason in her own head... inother words shes talking and acting from the wound that this separation has created..I talk through mine....as well...

3-I know she`s normally very compassionate and that people cannot stay angry forever also..I know that she knows I love our kids... and our whole marriage was not a joke...she has told me in the past two weeks that she misses being out as a family...thats love and caring speaking..thats the past yes..but its still fond memories...

4- She has a fear-- for whatever reasons..my depression--whatever and I look at that as being very sad..I do not let anger get ahold of me..it clouds my judgement..

5-I am not going to change who i am as man..since I would be lying to myself and really give her good reason to go off the deep end...and hurt more....

I cannot begin to imagine where and what some of you have been through in your lives.. this is very sad..I agree that people can be cutthroat.. but you know what --at one point I and this "other" person were deeply committed to one another..and instead of making them my enemy..I will welcome their fears and I will not become the "classic" ex who hates and uses tactics to bait and lure....at least i will retain my self respect...and not allow myself to drown in anger...I love our kids.. yes OUR kids.. more than anything in the world..I have had a terribly time missing them...but I am, going to trust my instincts...and my patience..I will see them again..I will talk to them again.. and I intend fully..to be freinds with my ex..for us and more importantly our children.. peace is there--in front of me..I cannot see it...grasp it.. yet... for my eyes are clouded with tears and sadness...but I know that it is in front of me...I won`t be the classic...bitter ex..male..I can`t be.. I respect my wife..evcen though wev`e been apart...after all she did not marry me thinking we`d split up...theres a pice of that in there somewhere still....
I value each persons opinions...I am going to take the high road...
Thats my two cents....
Aden--trust me I am going through hell.. right now...I am a great Daddy...
but anger creates more turmoil..and not peace..
The other issue is..this is Jeff`s Site.. but he certainly does not run it as his show..it has been a huge help to me.. and I appreciate it....
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 12:42 PM
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Default

Aden, your children will grow up loving and admiring you for your stance in all of this.. and knowing you, and the kind of exceptional person you are, they will also grow up NOT knowing the mistakes their mother made throughout, because you are thoughtful enough of THEIR needs not to tell them. It really takes a strong moral character to put your personal pain secondary to your childrens' need to respect and cherish their Mom, and I admire you so for having that courage and decency. Kudos, to the highest degree, friend.
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 01:07 PM
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FPI, Clearly, you are going through a lot of emotional issues with your separation, and I do hope you find the help and support you need; here, and through other avenues as well. I think it's wonderful that this site has such a good mix of men and women alike, so that we all can learn from one another's situations and hopefully gain some perspective from the "other" side of things. And of course, to have the benefit of some legally experienced minds.. it can only be a benefit, IMO.

I am curious, though.. with this statement..

Quote:
Originally Posted by FPI
...I been paying child support, Have yet to start paying spousal support, which I'm sure the judge will award her on February case conference. I’m just so afraid I will financially be ruined which in effect might kill me. I have read several posts where the women as recieved 60 percent of the husband’s income. How those the law expect the man to live. I feel I will end up on some corner begging for money, it's so unfair that spousal support can be indefinite. What is being done about this? I agree with supporting my children, but to have her use the system to stay home is ridiculous. Don't judges recognize that it destroys a man ability to work? I make rough between $50,000. To $55,000. After all my deductions I'm left with a take home pay of roughly 1300.00 every two weeks. If I'm paying her 1650.00 how am I supposed to live?...
Are you saying that on a yearly income no greater than $55K, your CHILD support payments are $1650 per month? That's without spousal support? For goodness' sakes, how many kids do you have?

My understanding is that the guidelines are in place to try to ensure there is enough money to suffice for the custodial parent to support the childrens' needs, and here in Alberta, let me just tell you that the amount of child support my ex is required to pay leaves him with plenty. I don't know where you live, but to give you an idea of the situation here, my ex earned just over $75K in 2004, we have two children, and his child support is $1010 per month. His take home pay is generally over $3000 every two weeks. Bottom line: leaving our family of four has done nothing but increase his financial picture, and left me and the kids struggling. I really don't understand the vast difference between your picture and mine.. what am I missing?

Also, how old are your children? You mentioned that your ex wants to stay home as opposed to working, and I'm just wondering if all the kids are in school or not? And if so, why does she not want to work? Indefinate spousal support is another term you used that I wondered about? Is that simply what she has indicated to you? That she doesn't know for how long she'll want spousal? Or has your lawyer or a judge indicated they may grant spousal on an indefinate basis? I ask, because my lawyer tells me that although our children are only 2, I won't likely get support until they attend school full-time, so I have to stipulate and specify a particular amount of time that I am requesting it for. Finally, what (in anything) does your ex have in mind to help contribute to the expense of raising the kids? My understanding (and I could be incorrect in this) is that she may ask for spousal support, but along with stating for how long she's asking to receive it, she must specify her 'life plans' and how she intends to end up contributing to the financial expense of raising the kids. I put that in bold in the hopes that others may comment as well, because I'm really not sure that I have that information correct.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 02:06 PM
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Default Just being honest..

Thank you Sasha , im just being honest.. I am sad but not angry.. we had agood marriage and I want to be able to salvage what is left to be freinds at least.. maybe others do not see it this way but the children need examples..I may not be around too much right now.. and there are many fresh issues.. but in the future our children deserve to have a Dad that respected what was going on ..no matter how sad or grief stricken I am...I am sure that my ex is going through her own issues with this as well...no one is untouched by hurt in any family in these cases..I see that now....
Thank you for the encouragement...I appreciate it....
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 02:11 PM
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Default One more thing...

I saw my wife give birth to both of our chidlren.. and I coached her through both of them.. with little help from the nurses etc...one day..she will remember the bond we share as parents..one day she will be without anger and hurt...and on that day..she will realize that she is still my hero..for i will be there for her on that day..to call her my freind...even after all that has happened...this life is tooshort to waste on hatred and anger.......
You all may think i am crazy...for what I am going through..but hurt travels alot less if bolstered with love and understanding...
If I act like a "cliche" then I will become a cliche......
Thanks again...for all the support...good luck to you guys...
I like Hubbys "Fight fire with water" --\
Peace.
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 02:46 PM
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Aden
No offense intended.
You aren't doing or feeling much different than any other disenfranchised parent. Whatever you decide is fine and up to you and there is probably no right way or wrong way of coping. You are a hero in my books and I have told you so.I took the stance you did and more, a lot more!! It came back to haunt me in a way I can hardly describe and it is taking a lot more effort to correct now. I am taking the high road, I don't know any other path, but the system in place does not care the way you think it should. You have responsibilities to your children that should be placed above your own need to feel you're sheltering your ex-wife and children from the fall out of Divorce over the short term. The Long term results are even more damaging.You have an obligation to see to it that your kids rights are protected .

Children's Bill of Rights
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All children shall enjoy the following inalienable rights:
The right to be treated as important human beings, with unique feelings, ideas and desires and not as a source of argument between parents.
The right to a sense of security and belonging derived from a loving and nurturing environment which shelters them from harm.
The right to a continuing relationship with both parents and the freedom to receive love from and express love for both.
The right to "listening parents."
The right to express love and affection for each parent without having to stifle that love because of fear of disapproval by the other parent.
The right to grow and flourish in an atmosphere free of exploitation, abuse and neglect.
The right to know that their parents' decision to divorce is not their responsibility and that they will still be able to live with each parent.
The right to continuing care and guidance from both parents where they can be educated in mind, nourished in spirit, and developed in body, in an environment of unconditional love.
The right to honest answers to questions about the changing family relationships.
The right to know and appreciate what is good in each parent without one parent degrading the other.
The right to have a relaxed, secure relationship with both parents without being placed in a position to manipulate one parent against the other.
The right to have one parent not undermine time with the other parent by suggesting tempting alternatives or by threatening to withhold activities with the other parent as a punishment for the children's wrongdoing.
The right to be able to experience regular and consistent parental contact and the right to know the reason for not having regular contact.
The right to be a kid and to be insulated from the conflict and problems of parents.
The right to be taught, according to their developmental levels, to understand values, to assume responsibility for their actions, and to cope with the just consequences of their choices.
The right to be able to participate in their own destiny.

Ratify these rights for your children and you will give them better protection than any law could ever provide.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 03:59 PM
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Aden is on a distinguished road
Default makes sense..

I am just at odds.. with the whole --she`s my enemy thing..is all....
I appreciate your words..and the childrens rights ....
I am a lonely Dad....who cares immensly for his children..
-
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 04:13 PM
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Default

Bearall..

Where did you pull that text from? As much as I agree wholeheartedly with the concept, I don't see it being put into practice.. at least, not here.. from what my lawyer tells me.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 05:01 PM
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bearall is on a distinguished road
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Sasha
I "googled" it and a couple thousand sites came up. I care about this issue so I looked for it because I wanted to show Aden what the children are entitled to(their rights). Being a parent and the ongoing responsibilities to little children transcends what we have been recently discussing. If you use a certain style to deal with conflict
you are left with the consequences of your actions or lack of. Event + your response= "Outcome"

You can avoid the issues(you lose,I lose)
You can accomodate(you win, I lose)
You can be competitive(I win, you lose)[this is used by a party or both when an ongoing future relationship with the people in dispute no longer matters]
You can collaborate (you win,I win)

Of course it is a very difficult and upsetting situation for all of us, but to choose or not choose "How you want the issues resolved" belongs to each one of us and respect for those eventual decisions and the mechanics involved in resolution, is our own cross to bear now and in the future as it unfolds at a snails pace. But what the heck do I know!
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-28-2006, 05:04 PM
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I meant to add this "We see things not as they are but as WE are" !
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