Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > General Chat

General Chat This forum is for discussing anything that doesn't fit into another forum, or for discussing things that are off topic, or just for general venting.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 11:56 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ottawa, Orleans
Posts: 20
Ottawasm is on a distinguished road
Default Wording in court order

Hey Everyone. Haven't been on here for a while. Reading a few good posts right now!
Our question/concern is the wording in a court order: The other party is not willing to give us copies of some needed documents. The court order states "Notarised copies of (list of documents) will be provided to George". Our understanding is that the other party involved is, by court order, obliged to give George copies of the docs. Are we right?
The other party is 1. Not willing to give/make copies and 2. Not willing to pay for the service fee.
We looked online and on the forum but couldn't find much.
TIA.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 12:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,769
dad2bandm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawasm View Post
...
Our question/concern is the wording in a court order: The other party is not willing to give us copies of some needed documents. The court order states "Notarised copies of (list of documents) will be provided to George". Our understanding is that the other party involved is, by court order, obliged to give George copies of the docs. Are we right?...
If a court order specifically states, that Party A is to provide notarized documents to Party B, and Party A is refusing to do so, then they are in contempt of that order.

Does the order specify a date by which the documents are to be provided?
Do you have written (email) correspondence, to the other party, where they say:
- "I'm not giving you that info"
- "I don't care what the order states, you're not getting the info".

Seems pretty straight-forward here.
What kind of documents are these?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 12:46 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ottawa, Orleans
Posts: 20
Ottawasm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bandm View Post
If a court order specifically states, that Party A is to provide notarized documents to Party B, and Party A is refusing to do so, then they are in contempt of that order.

Does the order specify a date by which the documents are to be provided?
Do you have written (email) correspondence, to the other party, where they say:
- "I'm not giving you that info"
- "I don't care what the order states, you're not getting the info".

Seems pretty straight-forward here.
What kind of documents are these?
Thank you dad2bandm.
We're talking about copies of passport, health card, Birth certificates, etc. It is a high conflict relationship, the Judge has added that clause so that each household have copies to minimize conflict and communication.

The Order does not state by which date they are to be provided unfortunately. We did request them by writing 3 times. To which the other party has answered: 1, That it was not necessary to be notarised copies. 2. That she did not think he really wanted copies. 3. That she doesn't have the money or time to do this.

We started preparing the contempt papers, but want to make sure we're not losing our and the court's time.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 12:52 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,769
dad2bandm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawasm View Post
...We're talking about copies of passport, health card, Birth certificates, etc. It is a high conflict relationship, the Judge has added that clause so that each household have copies to minimize conflict and communication.

The Order does not state by which date they are to be provided unfortunately. We did request them by writing 3 times. To which the other...
When was the order issued, and over what period of time, have you made these requests?

What custody do you have? Do you have joint custody? I was able to get a copy of a birth certificate myself, because I have joint custody (and the other parent won't provide such documents to myself - though she is also ordered to as well).
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 01:09 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ottawa, Orleans
Posts: 20
Ottawasm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dad2bandm View Post
When was the order issued, and over what period of time, have you made these requests?

What custody do you have? Do you have joint custody? I was able to get a copy of a birth certificate myself, because I have joint custody (and the other parent won't provide such documents to myself - though she is also ordered to as well).
Same, Joint custody. I'll look into ordering a copy of the birth certificate ourselves then! And the Final order was done August 15th. We asked in Sept, Oct, and last written request was 2 weeks ago to which we asked to be provided with the documents by November 24th, or to tell us when we can expect to receive them if that deadline did not work for them. We really tried to be the nice guys but not luck. That's when she answered she didn't have the money or time to do that.
Thanks for the input about the certificate, def looking into it.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 01:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 402
good_mom is on a distinguished road
Default

Have you asked for a simple photocopy to start and see where that goes?

I think the whole point was for all to have a copy and if you can start by getting that then its a step in the right direction. If OP refuses then there is an issue.

She can take a photo of it with her phone and send it. Most cities have this service availible at around 40$. That not expensive...
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 01:51 PM
arabian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 9,846
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

forget the contempt (unless you want to go to court at least 3 more times). People can easily avoid contempt. All they have to do is state that they a) forgot, b) didn't understand and were waiting for instruction from their rabbi, c) didn't have the funds, d) didn't have the funds to retain a lawyer e) didn't understand the seriousness of the matter and so on.

If Orders are ambiguous and do not contain specific dates (deadlines in the Order) then you're hooped. Judge can't find someone in contempt unless it is proven that individual intentionally disobeyed the order. This can be harder than you imagine to prove.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 02:02 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ottawa, Orleans
Posts: 20
Ottawasm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by good_mom View Post
Have you asked for a simple photocopy to start and see where that goes?

I think the whole point was for all to have a copy and if you can start by getting that then its a step in the right direction. If OP refuses then there is an issue.

She can take a photo of it with her phone and send it. Most cities have this service availible at around 40$. That not expensive...
We did a few months ago. She said we did not need any of these papers/cars. When we argued that we need the health card information in case something happens, she just texted the numbers. So yeah.. no coparenting at all on that side.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 02:02 PM
arabian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 9,846
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

Here is one of many links for info on contempt in family law in Ontario:


https://flao.org/docs/contempt.doc
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-24-2015, 02:05 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ottawa, Orleans
Posts: 20
Ottawasm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
forget the contempt (unless you want to go to court at least 3 more times). People can easily avoid contempt. All they have to do is state that they a) forgot, b) didn't understand and were waiting for instruction from their rabbi, c) didn't have the funds, d) didn't have the funds to retain a lawyer e) didn't understand the seriousness of the matter and so on.

If Orders are ambiguous and do not contain specific dates (deadlines in the Order) then you're hooped. Judge can't find someone in contempt unless it is proven that individual intentionally disobeyed the order. This can be harder than you imagine to prove.
Thanks Arabian, that's what we're concerned about. While doing the research I realised it's harder that it seems to have someone brought in for contempt. Our order is very specific on everything... except that. The other party always plays the dumb or poor cards too (while we have proof/pictures she posts online) that she isn't poor but as you said, it's a hard process. Def keeping that in mind.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
documents, notarised, order, provide


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Enforcing a supreme court order undersc0re General Chat 13 11-06-2014 03:48 AM
Section 7 and Final Court Order motherbear4 Financial Issues 18 06-10-2014 11:17 AM
Court Order not being followed Zena70 Divorce & Family Law 4 06-04-2014 08:20 PM
meaning of wording in court order DAHP_01_05_12 Financial Issues 5 01-31-2014 10:33 AM
Changes to Court Order KLM27 Divorce & Family Law 4 01-03-2010 05:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:07 PM.