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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2017, 05:46 PM
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Your argument works both ways. I don't think it bolsters your position in any meaningful manner. Both sides made a choice. Both sides have to live with the consequences.

I think an argument could be made that there should be more informed consent. Perhaps a mandatory pre-nuptial agreement that specifically lays out expectations, followed by mandatory post-nuptial agreements every 5 years that confirm or change expectations. Currently massively impractical, but if enough people do it perhaps it could be standardized in some way.
I think this is an excellent idea Janus. If enough people start doing this then things would probably change. Of course a parallel change in legislation would be required.
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Old 09-15-2017, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Janus View Post
I think an argument could be made that there should be more informed consent. Perhaps a mandatory pre-nuptial agreement that specifically lays out expectations, followed by mandatory post-nuptial agreements every 5 years that confirm or change expectations. Currently massively impractical, but if enough people do it perhaps it could be standardized in some way.
I've made that argument in the past I believe. Wouldn't be too difficult to to implement. Lots of churches require you to do a marriage course, adding that information to their courses would be one way. Another would be that when you obtain the marriage license, the office has to provide you with a marital breakdown info pamphlet. They could even go so far as to having a second page to the license, having people sign that they read and understood the potential consequences.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
I think an argument could be made that there should be more informed consent. Perhaps a mandatory pre-nuptial agreement that specifically lays out expectations, followed by mandatory post-nuptial agreements every 5 years that confirm or change expectations. Currently massively impractical, but if enough people do it perhaps it could be standardized in some way.
I've made that argument in the past I believe. Wouldn't be too difficult to to implement. Lots of churches require you to do a marriage course, adding that information to their courses would be one way. Another would be that when you obtain the marriage license, the office has to provide you with a marital breakdown info pamphlet. They could even go so far as to having a second page to the license, having people sign that they read and understood the potential consequences.
I'm sure I've agreed with this idea in the past as well. Marriage is the only contract nobody bothers to fully understand before they sign it! Then they get totally blindsided and horrified by how dissolution of the contract works.

If it was government-mandated to have a prenup before the issuance of the marriage licence, no partner would have to look like the bad guy for asking for one and it would become a normal and accepted thing. It could reduce divorce battle costs, and transfer lawyer fees to before marriages instead of after their breakups. It could require updating regularly, to capture major relationship changes like having children or job and health changes.

It's like wills. People would be shocked to learn how their property is dealt with by the government when they die without one.
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Old 09-15-2017, 07:19 PM
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Im sure your ex's would have a different story like they stayed at home raising the kids while you worked. Or they stayed in one town because your career was more important. Or that they gave up trying to get more training or advance because they missed out while on mat leave. I have a hard time believing that you were duped by some scheming vindictive woman who sat on her ass while you worked. Ive seen enough stay at home moms or moms who are on mat leave struggle with the full time mom work. Keeping a house and raising children is not for the faint hearted. Added to that, there are plenty of people on here who fought and won ss fairly because it was owed to them. You were equally as able to fight to avoid it.

The system does need work but the basic rules are there to protect people. I cant argue against what some of the posters on here got including those who helped their doctor ex's go from 50 grand a year to 400 grand. Or Arabian who built a company with her husband only to have him defraud that company behind her back. Or the women who were raising the kids and keeping the homes while their husbands were out sleeping their way through a list of women. Yes there are some bad cases of unfairness but for the most part ss is legit.
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Old 09-15-2017, 08:01 PM
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well stated rockscan

I do get tired of reading anti-female posts. When will people grow up and take responsibility for their part in failing relationship? I guess it is much easier to live in a perpetual state of denial. I'd wager a bet that those who blame their ex's now were blamers throughout their marriage.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Im sure your ex's would have a different story like they stayed at home raising the kids while you worked. Or they stayed in one town because your career was more important. Or that they gave up trying to get more training or advance because they missed out while on mat leave. I have a hard time believing that you were duped by some scheming vindictive woman who sat on her ass while you worked. Ive seen enough stay at home moms or moms who are on mat leave struggle with the full time mom work. Keeping a house and raising children is not for the faint hearted. Added to that, there are plenty of people on here who fought and won ss fairly because it was owed to them. You were equally as able to fight to avoid it.

The system does need work but the basic rules are there to protect people. I cant argue against what some of the posters on here got including those who helped their doctor ex's go from 50 grand a year to 400 grand. Or Arabian who built a company with her husband only to have him defraud that company behind her back. Or the women who were raising the kids and keeping the homes while their husbands were out sleeping their way through a list of women. Yes there are some bad cases of unfairness but for the most part ss is legit.


Preach.
Of course there are going to be bad apples in the bunch but all of these scenarios exist for women and some situations warrant her collecting spousal support.
I think the system probably sucks for some people but can't be extreme because it must cater to so many different situations.
Perhaps prenups are the answer....
Or perhaps if you are that jaded and cynical about the what-ifs after it falls apart, you'd be better off single.
I was blindsided in my marriage by my ex. Just like most people on here, I have a lot to complain about. I also don't want to live my life


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  #77 (permalink)  
Old 09-15-2017, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ange71727 View Post
Preach.
Of course there are going to be bad apples in the bunch but all of these scenarios exist for women and some situations warrant her collecting spousal support.
I think the system probably sucks for some people but can't be extreme because it must cater to so many different situations.
Perhaps prenups are the answer....
Or perhaps if you are that jaded and cynical about the what-ifs after it falls apart, you'd be better off single.
I was blindsided in my marriage by my ex. Just like most people on here, I have a lot to complain about. I also don't want to live my life


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Sorry sent too early - I meant to say I also don't want to live my life thinking about how every guy is going to do me wrong.


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  #78 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2017, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
I have a hard time believing that you were duped by some scheming vindictive woman who sat on her ass while you worked.
I totally was. My ex was a schemer if you remember correctly, doing anything she could to not work and get free money. Courts had to warn her to get a job when D6 entered school and to start taking responsibility for her life. If I didn't bring up her intentional unemployment in court and have a judge talk to her I'd probably be paying SS right now.

Men are still the breadwinners. But 18% of women are now the breadwinners of the home. They were only at 8% last year, meaning it's doubled.

I'm surrounded by strong women. My mother had me very young. I remember going to college in her backpack and drawing on the chalk board some days. I recall her doing midnight shifts at a Chinese restaurant. She collected bottles, worked 2 jobs and went to school, eventually becoming a security guard at a penitentiary.

My dad? Never present. My mom never asked for a cent from anybody. She worked her ass off. When I started school she started working full time.

Many of these same posters on this thread were on my threads preaching how my ex had a degree, training and should be a contributing member of society once D6 was in school. It's just the right thing to do.

My Uncle just went through the tornado. His ex (my aunt) cheated on him. He lost his home and most of his income with all of the ridiculous SS. An amazing man with an great job is now living in a leaking, depressing basement apartment. My aunt is now living with a golf pro, claiming he's a roomate. She bought a boat an entitled it "The SS express" just to rub it in. My Uncle is struggling to put food in his cupboards and my Aunt is actually in Jamaica right now based on her FB posts. It's not right. How the hell is this okay????

People live, people work. Men have injuries that render them bed-ridden for years .. but have to return to work when they're better. Women get pregnant, rendering them busy fr a few years .. but should be expected to return to work as contributing members of society once the kids enter school. Some financial assistance for those few years in between shouldn't be a problem .. however the expectation is for them to work and if it's prove that they're not even trying SS should be cut.

I hear a lot of "I want to punish my ex for cheating". So they go for the wallet. I dont know, maybe you left them sexually deprived .. who knows? Still no excuse for cheating, but sociology shows us that prostitutes actually serve a function in society and reduce family issues because many women can not have sex due to pain, etc. I'm not saying it's right and certainly dont condone it .. just saying often times it's more complex than one hero and one villain.

I think I posted all of the gov't initiatives in terms of getting women back on the job market, build leadership skills, etc following a pregnancy, divorce, etc. Our gov't is pouring hundreds of millions in to this initiative ...... so why not use that avenue instead of sitting in a corner with your hand out? My mom and many others I know certainly didn't. In my opinion, SS should be an extremely temporary thing until the parent gets back to work. No excuse to not work when kids are in school and the home is empty...no excuse at all. I"m definitely not anti-women .. women are my life. But I am "anti-lazy". Get a freaking job when your kids are in school .. use the resources .. be independent. It was very healthy for me to see my mom work that hard. Unbelievably inspiring.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 09-16-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 09-16-2017, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
I totally was. My ex was a schemer if you remember correctly, doing anything she could to not work and get free money. Courts had to warn her to get a job when D6 entered school and to start taking responsibility for her life. If I didn't bring up her intentional unemployment in court and have a judge talk to her I'd probably be paying SS right now.

Men are still the breadwinners. But 18% of women are now the breadwinners of the home. They were only at 8% last year, meaning it's doubled.

I'm surrounded by strong women. My mother had me very young. I remember going to college in her backpack and drawing on the chalk board some days. I recall her doing midnight shifts at a Chinese restaurant. She collected bottles, worked 2 jobs and went to school, eventually becoming a security guard at a penitentiary.

My dad? Never present. My mom never asked for a cent from anybody. She worked her ass off. When I started school she started working full time.

Many of these same posters on this thread were on my threads preaching how my ex had a degree, training and should be a contributing member of society once D6 was in school. It's just the right thing to do.

My Uncle just went through the tornado. His ex (my aunt) cheated on him. He lost his home and most of his income with all of the ridiculous SS. An amazing man with an great job is now living in a leaking, depressing basement apartment. My aunt is now living with a golf pro, claiming he's a roomate. She bought a boat an entitled it "The SS express" just to rub it in. My Uncle is struggling to put food in his cupboards and my Aunt is actually in Jamaica right now based on her FB posts. It's not right. How the hell is this okay????

People live, people work. Men have injuries that render them bed-ridden for years .. but have to return to work when they're better. Women get pregnant, rendering them busy fr a few years .. but should be expected to return to work as contributing members of society once the kids enter school. Some financial assistance for those few years in between shouldn't be a problem .. however the expectation is for them to work and if it's prove that they're not even trying SS should be cut.

I hear a lot of "I want to punish my ex for cheating". So they go for the wallet. I dont know, maybe you left them sexually deprived .. who knows? Still no excuse for cheating, but sociology shows us that prostitutes actually serve a function in society and reduce family issues because many women can not have sex due to pain, etc. I'm not saying it's right and certainly dont condone it .. just saying often times it's more complex than one hero and one villain.

I think I posted all of the gov't initiatives in terms of getting women back on the job market, build leadership skills, etc following a pregnancy, divorce, etc. Our gov't is pouring hundreds of millions in to this initiative ...... so why not use that avenue instead of sitting in a corner with your hand out? My mom and many others I know certainly didn't. In my opinion, SS should be an extremely temporary thing until the parent gets back to work. No excuse to not work when kids are in school and the home is empty...no excuse at all. I"m definitely not anti-women .. women are my life. But I am "anti-lazy". Get a freaking job when your kids are in school .. use the resources .. be independent. It was very healthy for me to see my mom work that hard. Unbelievably inspiring.


I think there are different scenarios that are being mixed together. In your ex's case she was young and had degrees, she was capable of making a decent wage... what most SS orders are about is the long term relationships where one parent stayed home for many, many years, not just until the kids were in school. This is why I have stated that if someone is soooo adamant that their spouse goes back to work at an agreed upon time but then spends the next 10 years supporting said spouse because they didn't go back to work, they can't come on here complaining they had no choice and it was all their spouses doing. They did have a choice. They could have left early in the relationship, they didn't have to spend 10 years supporting a spouse. But by doing so they set a precedence and that's what the courts recognize.

Personal story... my mom worked up until she got pregnant with each of us, but it was only even at grocery stores, etc... at a young age she met my dad who had a very good starting career in the trades... between myself and two of my siblings she went back to work. This worked for them as Dad was traveling a lot in his early years as a trades man. I mean two days after I was born he was 12 hours away for 14 days at a time and home for a week... he did what he had to do to support the family and build his career... fast forward and my parents ended up pregnant with my youngest brother... which was 10 years after their third child... Mom again went on mat leave... at this time Dad was back working locally and had made a very good name for himself and at a very good wage. They decided when my youngest brother was born it didn't make sense for Mom to return to work so for the past 15 years she hasn't worked. Dad makes more than enough for their lifestyle and now that he is in the position he is in he wants to be able to enjoy their lifestyle. He wants to be able to go away and travel. It wouldn't be possible if my mom worked full time because any jobs she would qualify for would involve evenings and weekends and this wouldn't allow them the freedom they have.

My mom never had the opportunity to go to school or get a diploma or degree because she had to watch us as kids while dad was all over the place taking calls wherever he could to work his way up that ladder. If they were to separate he would absolutely owe my mother SS and that's something he is well aware of but these are decisions they made as a couple and they are both responsible for those decisions. That being said, even the SS he would pay wouldn't allow her to continue to live the lifestyle they had. Reality is they both lose is some aspect of their life.

In my case, I have been off work since August due to pregnancy related issues... my husband has been supporting our household since the $500 a week I get in sick leave is barely a drop in the bucket in what we need to run our household. After mat leave I plan to go back to work (actually plan to go back early) but even if I stayed off until our child went to school I don't believe I would be entitled to SS because the 5 years I have been off wouldn't really effect my career... I worked an office job for a contracting company and could pick that up again any time.

SS is not a one size fits all like some people like to believe. Eliminating it would mean that us as tax payers have to then support those spouses who have no skills. Similar to those who sponsor people from other countries... they just can't bring them to canada with zero marketable skills and then abandoned them and say figure it out yourself... they are on the hook to support them... again as tax payers we shouldn't be on the hook for a decision those two adults made.


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  #80 (permalink)  
Old 09-16-2017, 11:46 AM
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"SS is not a one size fits all like some people like to believe. Eliminating it would mean that us as tax payers have to then support those spouses who have no skills. Similar to those who sponsor people from other countries... they just can't bring them to canada with zero marketable skills and then abandoned them and say figure it out yourself... they are on the hook to support them... again as tax payers we shouldn't be on the hook for a decision those two adults made."

Thank you Bernier_Faith - IMO this is probably the best summary so far w.r.t. SS on this thread.
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