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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2017, 12:29 AM
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I entered into marriage as an equal to my husband, same qualifications and same earning potential. We both work full time. A few years after a couple of kids are born we mutually decided I would mostly stay at home to talk care of children, household, and organize our lives and work very little at part time work while he was the main income earner. We both contributed to the family, he in paid labour and I in unpaid labor. He increased his earning potential and added qualifications enabling him to increase financial earnings. I did not. We were supposed to share the fruits of both of our labours until death. Then the end of the marriage. I fully expect we should leave as equals financially, just as we did entering marriage. SS makes that happen. Just because one person is not earning money due to social constructs which devalue child raising does not mean they did not contribute labour to the family unit. That is why SS exists.

Unfortunatly my husband has the same views as posters above, believes my contribution to family labour is valueless, and also thought this during our marriage, cutting me out of all large financial decisions.
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Old 08-26-2017, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
A few years after a couple of kids are born we mutually decided I would mostly stay at home to talk care of children, household, and organize our lives and work very little at part time work while he was the main income earner.
"We mutually decided". However, you were 50% of that decision to hold your career. And keep in mind, your ex can NEVER force you to work. He can never make you work and use daycare to handle the kids while you worked. So, really was it a mutual agreement? What could your ex do to make you work if he wanted to. Most men just go with it....because we don't have a choice. "Happy wife Happy Life". ONLY way that it was mutual is if you had a contract going into the marriage and a amendment at the point of your "mutual agreement". Within that amendment it is decided what happens during divorce in respect to SS. There is no way your ex was thinking SS either at the time of your decision. Which would not hold up in any other court other than family court.

YOU made the decision to not work. NOT your husband. Not your husband because he has no authority over what YOU do. Your an independent woman before the marriage in charge of your decisions and your an independent woman within a marriage in charge of your decisions. No one controls what you do. Your husband can not make you work, nor not work. It is always the woman's decision to work or not. Because your independent.

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Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
We were supposed to share the fruits of both of our labours until death. Then the end of the marriage.
One of you canceled the marriage contract. You say it yourself, "Then the end of the marriage". End of contract, no more sharing the fruits. You're both independent people. Just because YOU made a bad financial decision during the marriage, your ex must now be a slave to you for life? How is that fair? Its down right unethical!!!

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Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
Just because one person is not earning money due to social constructs which devalue child raising does not mean they did not contribute labour to the family unit. That is why SS exists.
Correct. You provided labour raising children, as did your husband earning the money for the household. For the "household". Everything you needed your husband provided. Shelter, Food, Clothing, Car, makeup, etc... Some of this he probably covered/managed while he gave you money to by the rest. You had a joint credit card? You had a credit card? Who paid it? From who's money? Long story short...I am sure you shared the fruits of his labour. The time during the marriage, what was his is yours and yours his, including his salary.

But the marriage contract ended. As a independent woman why should you get SS? Why should you have a slave? George Washington had a slave....helped him make money. Your ex makes you money. For that he now has less than he had in the marriage. And just like a slave he has less incentive to work. So even though YOU decided to quit work in your marriage, you shared the income of your husband. Thus you were COMPENSATED. YOU knew what you would have as compensation when you decided not to work. So now that your on your own....WHY do you think your still entitled to that compensation, when your contract has ended?

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Originally Posted by denbigh View Post
I fully expect we should leave as equals financially, just as we did entering marriage
Easy...you decided not to work. And you were compensated during your marriage.


I work. I provide labour. I have a contract with my employer. I think and know I should be getting more pay and strongly believe my direct supervisor is holding me back. Not even my decision to stay back. I'm being forced to stay back. I could earn so much more. Due to a disagreement between I and my employer unrelated; my contract is canceled. Shouldn't I get some sort of support? I gave my employer some of the best years of my life...and now I have no income and must fend for myself. I don't know why I am not entitled to the same support passed out by judges freely in family court. Why is privatized welfare only applied within family court? hmmmm?
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
Only two reasons you got SS in this case: 1) your a women 2) Your judge is corrupt and requires a good one.

You and your ex were married. The income you both earned was shared within your relationship. period. One partner can burn the entire bank account, if both spouses have access, and both are on the hook for it. SS is not designed as a means to repay funds. If so, its possible for one spouse to then tell the other to empty the account and later say they knew nothing of it during divorce. Great way to set yourself up for life.

You and your ex were business partners. And as business partners were required to have agreements in place on the management of you company's finances and day to day activities. More important your individual roles. And as with any business where one partner steals from the company....there is a procedure to handle such activity....Criminal Law. Not family law.

Shameful to force a man into slavery, without a trial reviewing the crimes. Typical of a judge thinking they know all. Family court is no place for criminal justice. If your ex was truly at fault and skimmed all your money from the company....he should be doing time. Not working as a slave for you.

Ethically...what you're doing is a crime. You may tell yourself your getting repaid...but the judge must likely just said, " man must pay woman...period".

There is NO reason for the existence of SS.

Your case should have gone to another court. Did your judge happen to go to Harvard?

My ex was charged with fraud over 5000 but when it went to court the prosecutor dropped it. I was flabbergasted! I was told: "This is clearly a matter for family court - take this up with your divorce lawyer." Needless to say, after an intense 6-month investigation the police were not impressed with this outcome. Had I not been married to my partner the fraud charge would have proceeded and I would have been able to proceed to recoup my losses (from people he was hiding assets) through that process.

My expensive lesson: Never go into business with your spouse.

Through the years of our marriage (30 years) I had benefit of competent legal advice (corporate). No one saw this one coming.... No one.

My ex has challenged the SS 8 times (I am expected to be served with papers soon - annual thing with my ex). Each and every judge who has heard the details of the case has dismissed my ex's claim. There is nothing fraudulent about my situation - my marriage is categorized as long-term traditional marriage. I am entitled to indefinite SS. Whether I see SS indefinitely is another matter entirely.
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Old 08-26-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by arabian View Post
My ex was charged with fraud over 5000 but when it went to court the prosecutor dropped it. I was flabbergasted! I was told: "This is clearly a matter for family court - take this up with your divorce lawyer." Needless to say, after an intense 6-month investigation the police were not impressed with this outcome. Had I not been married to my partner the fraud charge would have proceeded and I would have been able to proceed to recoup my losses (from people he was hiding assets) through that process.

I disagree....if there was evidence of fraud....your ex would have been prosecuted. Not saying he did not fraud you...I am only saying there must have been no evidence. Prosecution will look at the entire case and decide on moving forward based on evidence, time in court (weeks/months/years), and chances of winning. Of course evidence would almost eliminate the other two.

Family court is not to decide if a spouse is awarded SS based on fraud or not. That's ridiculous. You were provided SS based on a 30 year marriage, your a woman, of which you most likely claimed that you took care of the household while your ex did not. Adding into the fact you were disadvantaged due to the relationship you had within the business. Even better if you claim your disabled and limited in your ability to do some things. cha ching... SS for you my dear. Cash for Life!! The big easy!!

Don't worry too much your indefinite ruling will hold. "until death due us part..." is the only thing the court refuses to remove from a canceled marriage contract.

Its surprising how this country, with its "great" Charter of Rights, thinks its ethical to in-debt a individual to a life time of slavery. And on top of that think its in the best interest of the children....disgusting.

Sorry Arabian.....you may think that your ss is payback....but its not. You got what every other woman got in your shoes. A lottery win.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 08-26-2017, 10:32 AM
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Comparing SS and marriage to an employee/employer relationship is simplistic at best. Heck, I think I made a similar argument here in the past, and got schooled... But does anyone look at their employer/employee and state 'till death do us part'?

I don't like SS much myself, and consider myself to be lucky enough to have made some good choices during my marriage that enabled me to avoid it.

Railing against it here and insulting those who are recipients of it, won't accomplish anything however. If you're actually serious about doing something about it, organize a real petition (not that online garbage) or get in contact with politicians and see what you can do, or join a political party and work on making changes yourself.
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Old 08-26-2017, 11:36 AM
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Comparing SS and marriage to an employee/employer relationship is simplistic at best. Heck, I think I made a similar argument here in the past, and got schooled... But does anyone look at their employer/employee and state 'till death do us part'?
Simplistic? I've been married to my employer for double that of my ex. As its a "contract"...there is no difference. With every contract there are rules...there are no differences, unless you add love. And love is not in any contract especially during divorce. They are one and the same....one is based on capitalism the other socialism (privatized welfare). Marriage has been pumped by feminism for years as a humanitarian/human rights issue. Remove love...it is a contract. A contract with business, financial responsibilities and rules. No different than a employee and employer. Fact is FACT! History has also proven that when problems are work on at the most basic form and built on from a common foundation....solid solutions are achieved. Feminism turn it into a very complex matter...thus here we are today.

You've got it backward....I'll let you do the research regards to marriage and divorce in Canada. With less and less people tying the knot today....does anyone look at their spouse as til death do us part anymore? More and more people know marriage is poison...the restriction that government placed on it has turned it very toxic to any and every man.

Lobby the government? Fight feminism? Good suggestions on joining a party....Only both the major parties all avoid it as its a public disaster when the media get a hold of it. CAFE is a start and the documentary "The Red Pill" (banned in most countries as it shows feminism for what it is)...just begins to change medias perspective.
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Old 08-26-2017, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
I disagree....if there was evidence of fraud....your ex would have been prosecuted. Not saying he did not fraud you...I am only saying there must have been no evidence. Prosecution will look at the entire case and decide on moving forward based on evidence, time in court (weeks/months/years), and chances of winning. Of course evidence would almost eliminate the other two.

Family court is not to decide if a spouse is awarded SS based on fraud or not. That's ridiculous. You were provided SS based on a 30 year marriage, your a woman, of which you most likely claimed that you took care of the household while your ex did not. Adding into the fact you were disadvantaged due to the relationship you had within the business. Even better if you claim your disabled and limited in your ability to do some things. cha ching... SS for you my dear. Cash for Life!! The big easy!!

Don't worry too much your indefinite ruling will hold. "until death due us part..." is the only thing the court refuses to remove from a canceled marriage contract.

Its surprising how this country, with its "great" Charter of Rights, thinks its ethical to in-debt a individual to a life time of slavery. And on top of that think its in the best interest of the children....disgusting.

Sorry Arabian.....you may think that your ss is payback....but its not. You got what every other woman got in your shoes. A lottery win.
You tell that to the police department who did, in fact, charge him with fraud over 5000 (I did not). Oh there was evidence. Police Department's don't pursue these matters if there isn't any evidence. Attorney General of Alberta's Prosecutor/ decided not to prosecute. That is all. You obviously have no idea of what you are talking about and/or watch too much American television.

SS (which was considered substantial at the time) will not come close to reimbursing me for my losses. I am, and always have been, self-sufficient. Have worked since I was age 16. SS is decided upon an individual basis. I had a private divorce (JDR) and judge was well aware of the fraud. So have subsequent judges been aware of it. 12 different judges have handled my litigation post-divorce.

Ex wiped me out financially and left me holding the bag for corporate debt. Meanwhile he went on to make substantial income. I would never be able to make the income that he has and could generate. My ex made some very big mistakes with his various lawyers. I'm not going to state on this thread what specifically he did incorrectly. What I have done through the years, however, is point things out to many MEN on this forum what NOT to do.

Speculate all you want.... just keep paying your SS to your ex.
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:56 PM
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Arabian: Don't enter into a debate with these guys. When one of them can give birth to another human being they can start singing equality!

It's apples and oranges. You cannot make a blanket statement that in all marriages with children both parents should work in case the marriage fails and one,parent would be on the hook for SS.

When one parent has a job that demands movement every couple,of years - banks, armed forces for example, then the other parent has no,chance of securing a steady career. Oh wait perhaps you should also suggest it's best that anyone in these profession not marry or have children.

Both parents working and children spending more time with caregivers than a parent is destroying the family unit. Perhaps you would prefer we put all newborns into camps and they be raised by the state until they are of working age where they can rejoin their parents and contribute financially.

For Gods sake this is life! You cannot hedge your bets for every outcome. Divorce or death who knows what the future will bring.

Better not go in a car you might have an accident,and your insurance will not be enough to cover your future needs.

Better still get marriage insurance!

You are bitter because you might have to take of your money out of your pocket! Too bad life sucks for you anyway! Maybe you were not,such a great husband!
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Old 08-26-2017, 08:57 PM
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I have to wonder why all these men complain their spouse didn't work but they were not inclined to take time off work to raise their children? It was easier to leave it up to their spouses. As for how can you force someone to work? Well you're right you can't however if your agreement was that Mom stay home for only a year and then return to work then you had an obligation to stick to that agreement as well. If your spouse didn't return to work after a year you could have left them then! Simple! I mean they broke your agreement so leave... oh you didn't leave but instead didn't care that your spouse stayed home? Then suck it up when the marriage ends and pay. You consented to your spouse staying home by NOT leaving the relationship when they broke that agreement you had.


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Old 08-26-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Newfie76 View Post
Correct. You provided labour raising children, as did your husband earning the money for the household. For the "household". Everything you needed your husband provided. Shelter, Food, Clothing, Car, makeup, etc... Some of this he probably covered/managed while he gave you money to by the rest. You had a joint credit card? You had a credit card? Who paid it? From who's money? Long story short...I am sure you shared the fruits of his labour. The time during the marriage, what was his is yours and yours his, including his salary.
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Easy...you decided not to work. And you were compensated during your marriage.
And frankly, you should be grateful for that slab of fried bologna, served 7x a week!
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