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Old 02-16-2017, 12:55 AM
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Default Pay Equity for Women today

Interesting article posted today.

Reflecting on 50 years of women's rights, one decade at a time - Prince Edward Island - CBC News

"Today, there's still room for improvement, including continuing problems with equal pay..."

I think that while we look for equity in family law, pay equity is still something that needs to be continually addressed. I think that it stands to reason that if more men got behind this they would find less disparity in child and spousal support.

We can only hope.
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Old 02-16-2017, 01:20 AM
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I presume you are also in favour of occupational death rate equity?



We can only hope.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:01 AM
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I hate to cite this rag but this is an interesting article:

Canada's Gender Pay Gap: Why Canadian Women Still Earn Less Than Men
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:20 AM
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We know why women make less, it isn't some big secret, and it isn't some horrible patriarchal conspiracy.

1. Women choose safer jobs
2. Women choose jobs with temporal flexibility
3. Women tend to leave the work force for extended periods

Safe jobs pay less, jobs with temporal flexibility pay less. Leaving the workforce is a lousy career move. The solution is not to arbitrarily try to change wages, a likely viable solution is to get men into child rearing, and that is accomplished by use it or lose it paternity leave that is of equal length to the maternity leave.

Most dads would be thrilled to have paid paternity leave like moms. Want to close the wage gap? Start there.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:27 AM
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Dads do have "paternity leave". In Canada parental leave is not gender-specific, and it's not "maternity" or "paternity" leave. Any adults who is eligible through EI can take up to 35 weeks to care for a newborn, whether a biological or adopted child. (There are also up to 15 weeks of "maternity benefits" which are a form of medical leave available to anyone who has given birth to a child, whether or not they are caring for the child). Quebec offers extra salary top-up to people on parental leave. Details here:

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/be...-parental.html

So any father who is eligible for EI can take parental leave - the question is why more men don't use these benefits. Outside Quebec, only 12% of fathers take any of the parental leave to which they are entitled. In terms of divorce down the road, this sets up a lot of "primary caregiver" situations. I'd like to see a lot more men using parental leave as a step towards equality.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:40 AM
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My brother took paternity leave. He got three months and loved it.

I make double what my partner makes. I chose my career over marriage and kids.

His ex wife makes more than he makes because she told him her career would be the primary one. He spent much of the marriage in jobs that allowed him to take care of the kids or jobs that saw him home during off months.

Whats funny in my partners case is that he was eligible for spousal support and he received a high equalization because of the change to "equal in the marriage". His ex (and the kids because she says this) believes she made all the money so he should get nothing. The rule change to provide for the spouse that stayed home benefited my partner but because his ex is bitter, she never saw it that way.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
Dads do have "paternity leave". In Canada parental leave is not gender-specific, and it's not "maternity" or "paternity" leave. Any adults who is eligible through EI can take up to 35 weeks to care for a newborn, whether a biological or adopted child. (There are also up to 15 weeks of "maternity benefits" which are a form of medical leave available to anyone who has given birth to a child, whether or not they are caring for the child). Quebec offers extra salary top-up to people on parental leave. Details here:

https://www.canada.ca/en/services/be...-parental.html

So any father who is eligible for EI can take parental leave - the question is why more men don't use these benefits. Outside Quebec, only 12% of fathers take any of the parental leave to which they are entitled. In terms of divorce down the road, this sets up a lot of "primary caregiver" situations. I'd like to see a lot more men using parental leave as a step towards equality.
Parental leave is divided up between the parents. They get 35 weeks total, and can split it up however they like. If they both take it simultaneously, it just gets used up that much faster though.

Most commonly, yes, the mom still takes it all, for many reasons. Maybe the mom is still breastfeeding and doesn't want the hassle of pumping at work. But most likely, it's still the socialization of gender roles and that pesky wage gap: the dad usually has the better income and it's financially better for the mom to stay home, or the dad just has more societal expectation that he'll be the one to keep working.

Back to the gender wage gap though: it's a complicated matter of some types of (typically feminine) jobs still being paid less than other (typically masculine) jobs, women generally not fighting for raises as much as men do, etc.
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Old 02-16-2017, 10:58 AM
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^^^ Rioe is right, the 35 weeks is per baby, not per parent. So two parents (Mom and Dad, Mom and Mom, Dad and Dad) can divide the 35 weeks between them however they choose.
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:02 PM
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I think I need to quote myself.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus who isn't an uninformed idiot View Post
a likely viable solution is to get men into child rearing, and that is accomplished by use it or lose it paternity leave that is of equal length to the maternity leave.
I know that fathers can take paternity leave, but if they do it takes away from maternity leave, and moms are usually not exactly thrilled at the concept.

Use or it lose it paternity leave is the key.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...parental-leave
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Old 02-16-2017, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripes View Post
^^^ Rioe is right, the 35 weeks is per baby, not per parent. So two parents (Mom and Dad, Mom and Mom, Dad and Dad) can divide the 35 weeks between them however they choose.
It's not per baby either though, otherwise parents of multiples would get 70 or more weeks to divide up. There's a push on to have that included, but we're not there yet.

And yes, Janus, I think there is a lot of pressure on dads to give up their parental leave so the moms can be away from work longer. Not having to divide it up would change that dramatically. But it would cost a lot more out of EI so I can see why they might want to avoid it.

When I started working, I didn't even know these paid leaves existed. I thought parental leave just meant that if you wanted to take time off work after your child was born, your employer legally had to let you return when you were ready, holding your job for you instead of permanently replacing you, but that the time off would be unpaid. I didn't know EI paid you to be home. I thought that it was your own responsibility to save up before your child was born to be able to afford to take the unpaid leave. I delayed having children for several years because of this misunderstanding, assuming I would likely never be able to afford it, until someone coincidentally mentioned how it really worked to me. I still find the concept astounding. EI should be for when you LOSE your employment, not for when you voluntarily give it up temporarily. I don't like EI for seasonal employment either - you KNOW your job is seasonal so budget accordingly.

Actually, for me, the whole concept of EI goes into the bucket of financial weirdness that also houses CPP. We pay into these programs while we're employed, so that we can draw on them when we are jobless or retired, because the government sees us as too stupid to maintain our own savings to look after ourselves in the event of job loss, or the even more predictable retirement. I'd much rather see basic income for ALL Canadians, with whatever you earn on top of that being yours to keep, (and coincidentally replacing social assistance, ODSP and SS all in one fell swoop) but I guess I'm now venturing into create-a-new-thread territory. I'm pretty sure I've forgotten what thread I'm even in right now.
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