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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2015, 12:41 AM
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I sold my house recently, and had an interesting chat with my realtor about just how different the real estate pay system is from the lawyer pay system.

A realtor does a LOT of work up front for no payment, for perhaps months at a time, but collects a significant amount when the house sells. Their total fee is a set % of the sale price and completely unrelated to how much effort the house took to sell. You never really get to know how much effort they put in behind the scenes or what they actually do or how much they may be slacking. If the house never sells, or the seller changes their mind and takes the house off the market, the realtor is out lots of their time and energy and earns zero.

A lawyer takes a LOT of money at the beginning, and gets more money if it runs out before doing any further work. They have an hourly rate, and the more effort they put in, the more money they demand in compensation. You have no idea what the final fee will come to. You get an itemized list of every single damn thing they charge you for, even if you don't understand it. If you lose or settle without your lawyer's help, you're still paying their fees.

Can you imagine if you had to give a retainer to your real estate agent just to get them to list your house? If, the longer it took to sell, the more open houses they hosted, the more schmoozing they did, the fee climbed higher and higher? If you regularly got a detailed bill listing every little thing they did and time they spent to sell your house? If you were out thousands and thousands of dollars before ever seeing a sold sticker go up, and there was no guarantee it would even happen?

Can you imagine if you only paid your lawyer a set % of your settlement when the whole thing was finally over, no matter how hard it was or how long it took? If you didn't have to pay them at all if you lost?
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
In no other line of work do you have people so emotionally invested and irrational, that come in with the most ridiculous of demands and expect instant results. I've seen first hand some of the stuff that family lawyers have to put up with.
No doubt that lawyers have to deal with extremely upset people with unreasonable expectations. My Ex is presently on his third lawyer as the other two were 'dismissed' for not agreeing with his agenda ...

If a set time to reach settlement were the standard - let's say 6 months from first filling for divorce with no agreement reached - then a trial date should be put on the calendar. This would insure no nonsense negotiations, and better use of the system.

This would be in the best interests of children who thrive on stability.
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Old 06-13-2015, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post

A lawyer takes a LOT of money at the beginning, and gets more money if it runs out before doing any further work. They have an hourly rate, and the more effort they put in, the more money they demand in compensation. You have no idea what the final fee will come to. You get an itemized list of every single damn thing they charge you for, even if you don't understand it. If you lose or settle without your lawyer's help, you're still paying their fees.
Agreed! No other service provider has this financial advantage. A contractor is paid as the house advances - get the foundations up, get paid, put on the roof get paid, finish the g/d house get paid. If it takes more time than what was agreed upon they are penalized and lose part of their retainer. There is an incentive to respect the clients time.

Nobody should have to spend years going through divorce ...
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Old 06-13-2015, 09:43 PM
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Perhaps to get a lawyer/unbundled services one could check with the small law firms or lawyers who aren't associated with large firms. My lawyer mentioned once to me that he could have gone with a large firm after he graduated but preferred the freedom to set his own rate and essentially run his own business the way he wanted to. He works in a firm with 6 other lawyers (2 senior partners) but has autonomy. Seems to be a good arrangement for him and his clients.

On the other hand I think that if I were a lawyer I would be very particular on who I took on as a client. Nightmare client would be a disorganized client who had messed things up royally and then who retained me (on a very limited retainer) to essentially clean up the mess with huge expectations. When a lawyer takes on a case he/she doesn't know what is going to happen in the future. There are too many variables.
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Old 06-13-2015, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janibel View Post
No doubt that lawyers have to deal with extremely upset people with unreasonable expectations. My Ex is presently on his third lawyer as the other two were 'dismissed' for not agreeing with his agenda ...

If a set time to reach settlement were the standard - let's say 6 months from first filling for divorce with no agreement reached - then a trial date should be put on the calendar. This would insure no nonsense negotiations, and better use of the system.

This would be in the best interests of children who thrive on stability.
In Quebec they use provision for fees very liberally to punish people for useless legal fees. The general principle is the husband pays the legal fees mostly unless the wife is crazy and if he is crazy he pays ALL her legal fees.
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Old 06-14-2015, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post


It would be akin to going into your doctors office and saying "remove this good leg of mine. I hate it because of birth mark I can barely see". The doctor would tell the person "No" and then "get counseling". But we have the expectation that the lawyer should do as we say, notwithstanding how stupid the request is.
Actually the difference between family lawyers and physicians is this. The physician says NO...get counselling. The Family lawyer says..."well...lets see what we can do about your unreasonable request. Let me write up some documents about it, serve some papers around it, maybe have a deposition on it, spend some useless time in a case conference discussing it, maybe prepare a motion for it , attend a few fruitless 4 way negotiations around it....and then after I've charged you $50,000 for the above....I'll tell you that I can't really help you with your request....and I'll drive away in the new Audi that you just bought me."
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Old 06-14-2015, 06:34 AM
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The problem with Family Law Lawyers as I found out. ......They prey on the emotions of a client. For most people it's their first divorce, so everything is spiraling. No one wants to back down. Once you come to your senses, many months has passed and you are out thousands.

Learned a great lesson from a friend who is a copper. "When you get enough people in a room, someone is slightly off center." Same holds true for lawyers.
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Old 06-17-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by annapurna66 View Post
Actually the difference between family lawyers and physicians is this. The physician says NO...get counselling. The Family lawyer says..."well...lets see what we can do about your unreasonable request. Let me write up some documents about it, serve some papers around it, maybe have a deposition on it, spend some useless time in a case conference discussing it, maybe prepare a motion for it , attend a few fruitless 4 way negotiations around it....and then after I've charged you $50,000 for the above....I'll tell you that I can't really help you with your request....and I'll drive away in the new Audi that you just bought me."
If they've told you it is unreasonable and that they don't recommend it and you still tell them to do it, that is your fault, not theirs.

The lawyers are supposed to advocate for their client, and in the process, give their opinion on reasonableness and chances of success. If your lawyer tells you your chances of success suck because your being a complete moron, but that they can still proceed if you want....there is no one to blame for the bills but yourself.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2015, 05:45 PM
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Lawyers are the second most mistrusted profession on earth...only second to cab drivers. True fact. Maybe its because of their stellar advocacy! lol Legal profession needs an overhaul. Just my opinion based on 3 1/2 years spent in court...but I'm sticking to it.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2015, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
If they've told you it is unreasonable and that they don't recommend it and you still tell them to do it, that is your fault, not theirs.

The lawyers are supposed to advocate for their client, and in the process, give their opinion on reasonableness and chances of success. If your lawyer tells you your chances of success suck because your being a complete moron, but that they can still proceed if you want....there is no one to blame for the bills but yourself.
And what about all the useless unenforceable orders, what about that, you don,t understand the point to these complaints. You just don,t comprehend, you just don,t get it. I"m afraid you may never be of a useful progression within the confines of family law. Good people are forced to fight without logic.

If lawyers were free then we could have lies and justice , now we have lies and bankruptcy. Good people are fighting for their children and you call them morons. Who are the morons? Is it the ones with free LAO, is it the ones who send in their rottwiller lawyers to accuse you without evidence. Lawyers are all trying to win at all costs. That,s the point to this thread. Intelligent people see this, now you do not have to be intelligent to use this to your advantage, but being intelligent will certainly help you take advantage of the very weak and unaccountable system. Thank you to the stupid who push their luck to far.

Courts are to provide justice and the intelligent people will prevail as there are more of us out there who comprehend the flaws of our system and will fight for Justice.
Hammer think about all the stupid laws of our past we no longer use, Think with your brain!!!

Last edited by Franklin; 06-17-2015 at 09:23 PM.
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