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Old 12-11-2008, 07:36 AM
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Default Ex living with someone, does that effect spousal support?

My ex, moved her boyfriend into our apartment before I left. They continued to live in the apartment and then moved into another apartment in the same building. A few months later, they both moved to another city. I would like to know why I have to pay support to her, if she has always lived with someone else? They were seeing one another for at least a year before I caught them in my bed!
She also initiated spousal support 17 months after our separation? Isn't there any laws about how long someone has to initiate a spousal support order, after a separation?
Would like to hear other members opinions?
Thanks for listening.
Rebel One
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:07 AM
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There is a general rule that one must initiate a request for SS within the first year after separation.
To do so afterwards decreases ones chances of winning the claim.
17 months indicates that she was able to be self sufficient without said SS.
I would think that you would have to demonstrate just cause to deny the claim. And sorry to say, living with another man will not factor, yet it may be considered if standard of living is to be determined as she obviously benefits from any standards of the new partner.

I suspect she will not focus on this and neither should you, as it will not look favourably to do so.
Duration and depth of the relationship and if there are any children as a result of the union are factors when determining entitlement and amounts.
The primary factors absent a child, is the need of the requesting party and the means to pay of the other. The courts will look at her ability to be self supportive and her income etc. As a general rule SS is to compensate an individual for having given up something or lost something as a result of the relationship/separation. And if this was a relatively short relationship, it most likely will have a time limit if awarded at all. There is no guaranteed receipt when it comes to SS claims.

I think you may need to give more details for a more likely outcome.
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:16 PM
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Thank you for your input.
I have not written my history on the forum yet...but to make things short and simple, I lived with my wife for 18 months before we married. We were legally married in a church, for 5 years plus two months. She had a son who was being raised by his maternal grandparents at the time. I had no responsibility/say to the raising of the child in any matters (school, doctor, dentist etc.).
My wife worked before we married. Had gone to college and had her RNA diploma. but refused to work in her field while we were together.
She did like to party with her friends which was alright with me at the time because I worked quite a bit, and there was an age difference of 20 years between us. She did move quite a few of her friends and their children into our residences throughout the 5 years. But again I was alright with the situation, because I thought at the time, we were helping these people get through a couple of rough spots.
The end came as I said before, when I came home to my wife in bed with her boyfriend. I packed a bag and left her everything plus paid all of her credit cards, her debts to her parents etc.
They have lived together now for over 5 years, and they were seeing one another for over a year before that.
She initiated the spousal support 17 months after our separation. I have had two lawyers now and the last one just left me a few weeks ago. I have been paying full child support for her son (which has ended now) and spousal support for her now for close to four years now...and all I have ever wanted was to be heard by the judge. But that still has not happened.
I do have a court date in the new year in front of the judge. I am hoping to have legal counsel by then, although because of finances, I can't see that happening. So I will face the court myself.
Although her lawyer has put an offer on the table, which seems a little over the top....paying ss ($600/month) until 2013 plus half of my pension plus staying on as the beneficiary of my life insurance policy and to be covered by my health benefits for life! I still want to be heard.
She works, lives with someone, rents rooms in her apartment, babysits for money, plus does other illegal transactions for money. I have all the evidence of my allegations but no one will hear me!!!
And just for kickers, I have two of her friends that have come forward to tell me that she tried more than once to poison me while we were together! Boy was I blind!
If you or anyone can help me, I would really appreciate it. My health is failing because of all the stress....hopefully I will see the end of this before something does happen. I would love to have a few years of happiness before I go to the other side! I could have retired by now, but can't due to all of the financial burdens this has put on my life.
Rebel One
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:08 PM
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If what this guy says is true, we have to help him. This is sickening.
Let's get the complete story and give him what he needs.

FN
PS: Not all marriage problems can be attributed to men
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:17 AM
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The basics as I see it are, you were never a
"loco parentis” to the son of a previous partner, and because he did not reside with the mother you never had an opportunity to bond and take that role. Therefore you were never liable for paying CS. Had you been to court and presented the facts, IE son being raised by maternal grandparents she would not have been granted CS.

Secondly, she waited 17 months to initiate a request for SS when the rule of thumb is 1 year, however, you were paying both CS and SS for up to four years. If her claim actually makes it past the greedy lawyer stage, and you get to court in the new year as stated, I would clearly state the length of the relationship, how she contributed nothing to the relationship either financially or emotionally and that the demise of the relationship was due to adultery, (no need for details the courts understand adultery). If the courts feel that she indeed had the need for SS, ask that the four years be included as part of the time frame for said SS. Hopefully the short length of the relationship and the four years of SS payment will be viewed as "time served”. IE: you already met your obligation by paying SS for four years, not to mention Cs for a child you had little contact with.

Usually the party claiming SS would have the onus of demonstrating that they forfeited something for the relationship and that they have an undeniable need to the same. Coupled with that the courts determine the length and depth of the relationship and your ability to pay. By paying you may have shot yourself in the foot by showing you have the ability, basically because you have established a status quo. So that is why I would hope the courts would make the determination and include the fact that you voluntarily paid not only SS but CS to a child that was not your or even in your care. And deem that she has already been paid any compensation she may have been entitled to. With short relationships, if deemed necessary they set a time frame on the length of the payments so that the receiving party can get themselves back on their feet and become self supportive. If the payments have stopped for any length of time there may be an established ability on her part to be self supportive now that payments have stopped and hopefully no further payment would be ordered.

Make a clear point of stating that the relationship only lasted 5 years, that you paid SS for four years, PLUS voluntatily paid CS and I would hope that courts view that she is no longer entitled to future payments. As for your pension. She is entitled according to laws, to a split in the CPP credits that accumulated during the 5 year marriage plus the previous 18 months for a total of 6 and a half years. Everything before and after are outside this and are not touchable. You said that she did not work during your marriage, that's unfortunate as you would have been entitled to 50% of her credits for the same 6.5 year period.

As a side note, with respect to the SS claim, ask that the courts input an income on her relative to her employability and education level when making the calculations for determinations of SS and amounts. This will reduce your obligation.
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Old 12-12-2008, 11:46 AM
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Thank you for your concern.
Yes everything I have said is true. I have over 20 people who have written legal affidavits for my side of the story. I have all the information to support my side. But I have also realised that the Ontario Court system, is not sympathetic to the men's side at all. Although, I do understand that for many years women did not have any say in the divorce courts either. Now the pendulum has swung over to their side. Now, men are not heard and have been put through the ringer financially. I have paid all that I can to lawyers who have been playing me like I was not even there. If I would have known about this forum, and all the legal information that is available to me on line earlier, I would have represented myself from the beginning. I could nave not done any worse for myself. The whole legal, judges, lawyers etc. work for themselves not for their clients. They can twist everything to their advantage and make so much money for themselves with no regard for decency, honesty or integrity.
I live in Northern Ontario. The city I live in has the highest rate of divorce per ca-pita in all of Ontario. So you can see the great dilemma the men have here to be heard by their lawyers let alone the court judges. They are making money here, hand over fist!!! Everyone knows someone. They all see one another socially. I can go on with conspiracy theories for ever but I will say that after my divorce, paying all of the bills off before I retire, I will never see this city again! I hope that in the future, the laws will change and be fair and just for men and women. Divorce is hard enough to go through without being 'taken' by the very people who are suppose to help you through this time.
I am now gathering all the fraudulent information about my ex to present it to the Crown Attorney, Welfare fraud dept., Revenue Canada, and the RCMP. Hopefully if the Court Judge in this divorce case can't see through the deceit on her part maybe one of the other agencies will. This has gone on too long and I am getting too old to fight.
The truth will set you free....
RebelOne
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Old 12-12-2008, 07:08 PM
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I want to thank you again for the time and the information you have shared with me. I will use the information when I am presenting my case before the judge in the new year.
There are many things that have gone on in the past few years while I have been gathering all of the information for this case that I have not presented here. I am very leery about sharing all of the information here because of the sensitive nature of it. I do not feel the need to share all of it so openly, especially when I do not know who is really reading all of what is here. I am thankful for all of the information and the support but the trust issues I have right now are binding me to be silent.
Right now I need all the help I can get to see me through this mixed up mess. I do have a few friends that are helping me with putting the paper work together in a concise and readable form. There is so much information that I have already filled 4 4inch binders and there is more to be done. I am really hoping that the Crown Attorney will read the shortened version and want to charge the ex for all of her wrong doing. Only time will tell.
This is not my first marriage, my first wife was killed by her father Christmas Eve many years ago. My children are all married and gone now. I moved here years back for my job, which I have always liked but I could have retired two years ago, if my first lawyer would have been on my side but she wasn't. I then contacted another lawyer, who I thought was willing to stand up for me but now I know that was not what was happening at all. To look for another lawyer at Christmas time seems futile and my case is being heard the second week in January. The judge stated that this would be the last time it would be in front of the courts. The lawyers for the past four years have been putting it off and changing the dates of the trial. Another ploy to make more money I guess. Now it is crunch time.
Please forgive me for rambling on, I just need to blow off some steam!
Thanks again for listening to me.
Rebel One
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Old 12-15-2008, 06:02 AM
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We all wish you the bets in your future court appearance.
We completely understand the need to limit information as I am sure many here also do. We only request just enough so that we can offer more accurate advise.


Again, all the best to you.
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Old 12-15-2008, 08:48 PM
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Dear FL_Needs_To_Change,
I am so grateful for all of your input. Thank you.
Now if I can prove that she was collecting Social Assistance when we were living together plus into our marriage, can she still claim that time in the CPP credit split?
Also, if I can prove that she has always been a 'landlady' before, during and after our marriage, can that be used as her occupation? Also, she did work for approx. 2 1/2 years as a sales woman but she was paid 'under the table' by one business and did get paid by another. But none of this was shown on her personal income tax returns....which I have more proof of.
Also, what type of proof do I need to show the courts that I was never in her son's life? I do have the child's father affidavit that he was not a part of the child's life either. And that the maternal grand parents were the sole providers and guardians of the child, because of the mothers (my ex) drug and alcohol abuse. I have other people's affidavits stating the child never looked to me for guidance either. Will this evidence help my case too?
I feel that I have paid enough to her and her son. All I want is a divorce now so I can get on with life.
Thanks again.
Rebel One
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Old 12-16-2008, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelOne View Post
Dear FL_Needs_To_Change,
I am so grateful for all of your input. Thank you.
I am just offering my experience, in the hopes someone can learn from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelOne View Post
Now if I can prove that she was collecting Social Assistance when we were living together plus into our marriage, can she still claim that time in the CPP credit split?
Whether of not she was employed, unemployed receiving EI or other, the split is for all credits earned during the period of co-habitation as husband and wife and for the duration of the marriage. The only issue is that she fraudulently received assistance to which she will have to repay if found guilty. But she is still entitled to CPP splitting. Remember all credits you earned are split and 50% given to her, and any she earned are split and 50% are given to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelOne View Post
Also, if I can prove that she has always been a 'landlady' before, during and after our marriage, can that be used as her occupation?
Yes, at the very least this can be used to input an income to reduce any claim for SS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelOne View Post
Also, she did work for approx. 2 1/2 years as a sales woman but she was paid 'under the table' by one business and did get paid by another. But none of this was shown on her personal income tax returns....which I have more proof of.
This is generally a hard thing to prove, and the proof must be undisputable for a judge to use it to establish income and if you ask, you can calculate how much CPP she would have earned, to reduce the amount you would owe her when they split CPP credits. It's like inputting an income, you can also input CPP credits to offset any amount owed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebelOne View Post
Also, what type of proof do I need to show the courts that I was never in her son's life? I do have the child's father affidavit that he was not a part of the child's life either. And that the maternal grand parents were the sole providers and guardians of the child, because of the mothers (my ex) drug and alcohol abuse. I have other people's affidavits stating the child never looked to me for guidance either. Will this evidence help my case too?
The onus is on the claiming party to demonstrate that you held this role. And at that time you can refute any documents she provides with counter affidavits from eye witnesses, (not hear say, or second hand information) or other documents you may have to the contrary, IE from teachers and doctors via affidavits
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