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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:43 PM
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Yikes...now that is messed up, no surprise there though as it relates to alienating. That is always the #1 course of action when emotions run high and bad friends are leading them on, as well as ways to get table amount amongst other things.

Again....still not a reason for anyone to take lives. The law can act to punish severely false allegations and alienation, and perhaps then and only then, would be crazies will weigh their options

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Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
I also want to point out that news story does not discuss in any way what led to or caused the murder to take place. This is one of the fundamental issues. Men (short of severe mental illness) do not just go and randomly kill spouses, children and whole families without cause.

However the media rarely or never discloses anything about the cause. Simply stating that man = murderer and women/children = victims. Believe me, whenever I see cases like this, I always go to Canlii and try to find out what happened to the family to lead a parent to something so extreme and horrible.

For example,

They didn't say that she had been systemically alienating him from his friends and family for years, that she had taken and spent all of their savings on herself, drugs or gambling, that two of her three children were actually fathered by other men and he had been living a lie his entire marriage, etc.

The story is ALWAYS a lot more complex.

Nothing excuses murder or violence, but without appropriate context we are ignorant that most domestic violence doesn't occur in a vacuum.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:43 PM
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I believe that people (male and female) who are charged and prosecuted with having intercourse with children are put on a sexual offender registry as well as prohibited from being in proximity to children.

An interesting case of a doctor in Alberta who was charged with fondling patients yesterday did not have his medical license revoked. His sentencing will be interesting:

Ismail Taher, Edmonton-area doctor, guilty of sexual assault - Edmonton - CBC News
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:47 PM
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Serendipitous is bring another commonly discussed element into the discussion, and that's simply bias in sentencing or punishment. You can track this easily in terms of demographics about who gets the worst sentences for similar crimes. Being a poor African American man in the states will get you put away most often, for the longest, for the least serious crimes. Being an affluent, wealthy, white woman generally is found guilty least often with less severe punishments. I don't really want to get into this argument, it's not fair, but it does seem to be a real thing. You can research it for yourself.

I don't think the discrepancy is as high in Canada as in the US, but Canada in general has less severe penalties for lesser crimes.

Last edited by FightingForFamily; 04-23-2015 at 12:50 PM.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 12:51 PM
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That is just one part, what about the actual punishment i.e jail time? See the links above and replace the female with male, and tell me the punishment (not sex offenders list), will be the same

In Toronto, related to your Doctor story...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...l-assault.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
I believe that people (male and female) who are charged and prosecuted with having intercourse with children are put on a sexual offender registry as well as prohibited from being in proximity to children.

An interesting case of a doctor in Alberta who was charged with fondling patients yesterday did not have his medical license revoked. His sentencing will be interesting:

Ismail Taher, Edmonton-area doctor, guilty of sexual assault - Edmonton - CBC News
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:03 PM
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I agree there are stark differences between Canada and the US in terms of sentencing. However, we are inundated with sensationalistic American media and it therefore stands to reason that it is easy to draw incomplete and inaccurate conclusions.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:32 PM
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Ugh. Two wrongs don't make a right.

We already know that the vast majority of violence and sexual assault is perpetrated by men.

We already know that women are also portrayed in various sexist ways.

The issue I have is specific - Fathers are not, for the most part, portrayed in a terribly positive light in all forms of media. It creates a vicious cycle of lowered expectations. It demands less of fathers and sets a low bar. It creates a climate where terrible fathers are expected, and good dads aren't given the benefit of the doubt.

This doesn't eclipse the harsh realities that women face, whether it be violence, sexual assault, or pay inequality.

All forms of gender inequality and bias are bad. The problem is, people don't talk as much about the insidious and subtle ways that males can be victims of it as well.

Go on, surf Facebook posts and media stories, and see how you can find that highlights fathers suffering parental alienation, or see how many articles you can find in which the gender neutral word "parent" is used instead of "mom".

As for television and commercials, yes, women get portrayed as mindless shoppers, but so often, they are shopping for their family! Look at how in most sitcoms, the dad's parenting competence is eclipsed ten-fold by the mothers. Everybody Loves Raymond, The Simpsons, All In The Family, Home Improvement, Modern Family.

One of the most competent and capable sets of dads seen on television was the cast of Full House! That's fine, but they had to take the mom out of the picture entirely!

I'm a dude in my mid 30s, and I know a lot of other dues in their 20s and 30s that pull their weight with household chores and parenting duties, and I can tell you that we're all collectively sick of the bias against men that is present out there. Then, when we complain about it, we get to be told that we shouldn't be pissed because women have it worse. Why can't we all just commit to rooting out the gender bias on both sides?
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 01:48 PM
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Ahahahaha...good point and I couldn't agree more. However, reality is most female aren't willing to / care for that, because it will be taking away from them the bias / pity that currently works in their favour.

Point in case, imagine women coming into family law changing the status quo i.e. accepting the fact that in this day and age, it should be 50-50 / every adult has a responsibility to fend for self / scrapping of spousal support / etc??????

Yeah....wishful thinking, and more chance of seeing / ending up with a Unicorn.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Straittohell View Post
Ugh. Two wrongs don't make a right.

We already know that the vast majority of violence and sexual assault is perpetrated by men.

We already know that women are also portrayed in various sexist ways.

The issue I have is specific - Fathers are not, for the most part, portrayed in a terribly positive light in all forms of media. It creates a vicious cycle of lowered expectations. It demands less of fathers and sets a low bar. It creates a climate where terrible fathers are expected, and good dads aren't given the benefit of the doubt.

This doesn't eclipse the harsh realities that women face, whether it be violence, sexual assault, or pay inequality.

All forms of gender inequality and bias are bad. The problem is, people don't talk as much about the insidious and subtle ways that males can be victims of it as well.

Go on, surf Facebook posts and media stories, and see how you can find that highlights fathers suffering parental alienation, or see how many articles you can find in which the gender neutral word "parent" is used instead of "mom".

As for television and commercials, yes, women get portrayed as mindless shoppers, but so often, they are shopping for their family! Look at how in most sitcoms, the dad's parenting competence is eclipsed ten-fold by the mothers. Everybody Loves Raymond, The Simpsons, All In The Family, Home Improvement, Modern Family.

One of the most competent and capable sets of dads seen on television was the cast of Full House! That's fine, but they had to take the mom out of the picture entirely!

I'm a dude in my mid 30s, and I know a lot of other dues in their 20s and 30s that pull their weight with household chores and parenting duties, and I can tell you that we're all collectively sick of the bias against men that is present out there. Then, when we complain about it, we get to be told that we shouldn't be pissed because women have it worse. Why can't we all just commit to rooting out the gender bias on both sides?
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 04:12 PM
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Well I for one do not believe in pay inequality. In my industry (software engineering) there are more men than women. They are paid the same, treated the same, and come in varying levels of competency. Just like the men. There are project leaders and managers of both genders as well.

I've been here essentially every day for 10 years, and my female coworker has as well. Although I don't know for sure, I actually believe she makes slightly more than I do.

However for another person who takes off four of those ten years to have babies, she gets credit for her six years of service, not the full ten.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 04:25 PM
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Just to close the loop on the story about the mass murder in Saskatchewan, Arabian was using an example of domestic violence in Canada:

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/steve-osha...175805991.html

Just as I expected, once again, serious mental health issues. The assailant and his family sought help for years. Resulted in tragedy for this family.

Again, domestic violence does not occur in a vacuum.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 04-23-2015, 09:54 PM
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^^^ I've said this before, the majority of couples who end up in front of a judge would be better served in a therapist's office. Often times family's could be salvaged with the right support and this would be in the children's best interests.

Rather than rushing to get financial disclosure, how about some mental screening to get to the bottom of the problem before calling in the lawyers.

This would help avoid a lot of these domestic tragedies.

Prevention VS litigation.
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