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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 04-17-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Mom View Post
I'm not sure they were actually living together at the time. They had also only been together months, not years...so perhaps habits weren't completely known to each other yet??

I hear what you're saying...but the story I read was that he had previously gotten up and was elsewhere in the house when he heard fussing in the bathroom. I don't think he got up from bed and shot the bathroom door down....
IMO a reasonable person doesn't shoot first and ask questions later when they know there are other people in the house.

I understand crime rates are bad over there, but to trying to use that as an excuse for acting irrationally/unreasonably, is really pathetic.
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Old 04-17-2014, 02:08 PM
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I agree HD, even if you were living under a constant threat of danger [and I am under the impression his house is a high security, guarded fortress], wouldn’t you still stop and think to check on the whereabouts of the ONLY other person in the house? If, as he asserts, he was yelling at her to call the police, it seems reasonable to me that she would answer back and let him know she was on the toilet, in the bathroom.

Witnesses have testified they heard yelling and screaming that night - I think they had a huge argument, she locked herself in the bathroom to get away from him, and in a rage he started firing.

I think his emotions are honest - but I believe he knew it was her behind the door and his tears are for himself and his potential future in jail.

I wonder if we will ever know the truth? Seems OJ’ish. MsMom- if the judge convicts him, will there be a reaction on the streets?
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:51 PM
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I agree HD, even if you were living under a constant threat of danger [and I am under the impression his house is a high security, guarded fortress], wouldn’t you still stop and think to check on the whereabouts of the ONLY other person in the house? If, as he asserts, he was yelling at her to call the police, it seems reasonable to me that she would answer back and let him know she was on the toilet, in the bathroom.

Witnesses have testified they heard yelling and screaming that night - I think they had a huge argument, she locked herself in the bathroom to get away from him, and in a rage he started firing.

I think his emotions are honest - but I believe he knew it was her behind the door and his tears are for himself and his potential future in jail.

I wonder if we will ever know the truth? Seems OJ’ish. MsMom- if the judge convicts him, will there be a reaction on the streets?
He lives in an exclusive Pretoria gated community. This means his house isn't gated, but the whole is behind 10ft brick walls with barbed wire and steel gates at the entrance. There will be armed guards there 24/7.

I don't think it's a reasonable excuse at all. I was just clarifying that he didn't roll out of bed and shoot at a door and the fact that they hadn't been together long, so habits not necessarily known, the story sounds slightly plausible. And, generally, slightly probable is all that is required to shoot in South Africa. Is that reasonable, hell no. Is it reality, yes.

The white South Aricans, or Afrikaaners, do "feel" as though they are under a constant threat of danger. This perceived threat is the only thing that gives any validity to his story at all. Yes, most of the time it's baseless fears that cause them to react so violently. But, it's also become a learned behaviour in many ways. Pistorious himself has been victim to several break-ins.

I don't think that this gives him any right to shoot first and ask later....but the overwhelming number of Afrikaaners will believe he did what he had to.

I think this is what I find fascinating. Its a Afrikaaner using ingrained race-based biases and excuses for his piss-poor behaviour. At little Zimmerman-ish to me. But, he isn't being tried by his peers...he's being tried by a black judge. There will be many who don't believe a black judge has the right to sentence a white man......barbaric maybe, reality absolutely.

I think they'll be backlash whether he's found guilty or not. I don't think we'll necessarily hear about some of it, but there will be a fallout from this for sure.
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:52 PM
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Here's an article from last year. This gives a snapshot into the Afrikanner mentality.

South African town accused of keeping apartheid alive - CNN.com
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:35 PM
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IWhat was she doing in the bathroom in the middle of the night, was she crapping or peeing? If it is neither then she was going there for refuge so she pretty much should have had her pants down.

Secondly, why would any person think an intruder would head for their toilet?

Thirdly, wouldn't you screwam and say whoever gyou are come out with your hands up I have a gun aimed at the door.

Fourthly, how much noice does a person making going to the bathroom and why would you assume that the noise is an INTRUDER and not your girlfriend who I am sure he didn't just forget because any guy would be thinkging "I need to protect my girl"

Guilty based on the info I have.
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Old 04-17-2014, 05:51 PM
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IWhat was she doing in the bathroom in the middle of the night, was she crapping or peeing? If it is neither then she was going there for refuge so she pretty much should have had her pants down.

Secondly, why would any person think an intruder would head for their toilet?

Thirdly, wouldn't you screwam and say whoever gyou are come out with your hands up I have a gun aimed at the door.

Fourthly, how much noice does a person making going to the bathroom and why would you assume that the noise is an INTRUDER and not your girlfriend who I am sure he didn't just forget because any guy would be thinkging "I need to protect my girl"

Guilty based on the info I have.
On your third point -

If he truly thought there were dangerous people behind that door, then he would have also assumed their were armed with semi-automatic weapons. That's where the shoot now, check later mentality comes from. The offenders won't come out with their hands up, they'll come out shooting their own guns.

I don't know if what he's spouting is true or not, and I'm not defending his actions one iota. South Africa is a very different place.
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:54 PM
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Guilty based on the info I have.
Links, to be fair, I think most of us based on the information we were receiving at the time believed OJ was guilty as well and yet - he was acquitted. Riots in the streets.

MsMom that was an interesting read, thanks. Kinda scary re the ongoing racial discrimination - and parents making a choice to move to the "whites only" enclave. I hadn't realized that was still happening.

It appears no matter what decision this judge makes - there is going to be a reaction. Add in her being black and female, and it only complicates the issues - it shouldn't, but it will. And since even we still have questions, I don't think the prosecution at this moment has proven its case - his defense might just have this on reasonable doubt.

(I still think he's guilty.)
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Old 04-18-2014, 12:53 AM
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Links, to be fair, I think most of us based on the information we were receiving at the time believed OJ was guilty as well and yet - he was acquitted. Riots in the streets.

MsMom that was an interesting read, thanks. Kinda scary re the ongoing racial discrimination - and parents making a choice to move to the "whites only" enclave. I hadn't realized that was still happening.

It appears no matter what decision this judge makes - there is going to be a reaction. Add in her being black and female, and it only complicates the issues - it shouldn't, but it will. And since even we still have questions, I don't think the prosecution at this moment has proven its case - his defense might just have this on reasonable doubt.

(I still think he's guilty.)
The apartheid culture is still ingrained in the people there. It will take many years of slow change for real difference. It's very difficult to explain the overwhelming acceptance of the racial divide despite all the dramatic change the country has undergone.

Economic sanctions had a dramatic effect on the country. The high levels of crime are very much related to the high levels of poverty. Corruption is the norm in the police ranks, black and white.

This is the place the judge grew up, went to high school and worked as a social worker:
Alexandra township in Johannesburg ? in pictures | Art and design | theguardian.com

This is where Pistorius lived:
Oscar Pistorius to sell house where he shot Reeva to cover legal fees - Telegraph

And, for the record....just because the judge is black, it doesn't mean she resides without security. She too will live in a gated community, or in a home guarded by high brick walls and remote gates. The judge is too aware of the actual dangers. But, I imagine using it to excuse behavior will be an interesting point for her to ponder.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 09-11-2014, 07:39 PM
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Well, she has decided he is to be cleared of #1.

Perhaps a finding of reckless behaviour/manslaughter?
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:06 AM
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Well, she has decided he is to be cleared of #1.

Perhaps a finding of reckless behaviour/manslaughter?
Manslaughter. He may not even get a prison sentence.

Only in South Africa does it seem possible that someone would break into your house and go to the toilet.
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