Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce Support

Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2013, 12:21 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 31
Suzie is on a distinguished road
Default Is it worth it

Hi again everyone,

I need opinions... again.

There are so many small issues going on, that I am losing my focus. I need some opinions about what you guys think is worth a fight or not.

a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.

b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.

c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)

d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)

e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.

f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)

g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)

Background info : CS is offset of our income. Ex doesn`t pay a dime in anything other than CS.
Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.

I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.

With the speed of our law system, I will lose my mind before my kids turn 18. If you guys see my mind, send it my way, with a bit of wisdom.

Thank you so much.
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:06 AM
wretchedotis's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ON
Posts: 2,317
wretchedotis is on a distinguished road
Default

How much is your sanity worth?

More than the dollar amount of court costs, time, and stress of it all? Or less?

That's your decision to mkae. No one can help you there.
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2013, 01:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 286
HappyDays is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
Hi again everyone,

I need opinions... again.

There are so many small issues going on, that I am losing my focus. I need some opinions about what you guys think is worth a fight or not.

a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.

- depends if you think your income will soon be higher than his. Court will usually do it according to incomes.

b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.

- unless he has little income, he should be paying for some activities. Court can put a set amount on him that he has to pay each month through FRO. However you have no say on what he does during his week. Either you can enroll them and only take them on your weeks or you could see if you could switch access to 2-2-5-5, to allow the kids to maintain activities.

c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)

- yes. This could also be grounds for sole custody if he continues.

d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)

- fight this as the kids should maintain contact with both parents. A week is a long time.

e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.

- if you have proof use it, otherwise you have to let it go

f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)

- he just needs to show you one time that you are the beneficiary, then he is good. Make sure he shows you.

g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)

- if you have proof, use it. This would affect cs and s7.

Background info : CS is offset of our income. Ex doesn`t pay a dime in anything other than CS.
Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.

- don't fight all battles, just tell him what you want and let him know you'll go to court and ask for costs if he doesn't agree or provide reasonable alternatives.

I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.

- don't quit for the kids' sake.

With the speed of our law system, I will lose my mind before my kids turn 18. If you guys see my mind, send it my way, with a bit of wisdom.


Thank you so much.

- you're doing great, keep going
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2013, 02:52 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 39
thorns is on a distinguished road
Default

I think you know what items you want to deal with, and its great you are very organized and focused. Try to be patient and let your lawyer deal with it, you are not asking for anything unreasonable. The only suggestion I would have for you is, being that the dad doesnt pay or buy anything for the kids beyond his child support, if it is agreed that he will pay for the extra activities, and if your kids need some tutoring or something like that, have it ordered that fro deals with it. I receive monthly his portion of tutoring ,and sports with my child support that comes to me through Fro. Your doing great.. It will all fall in place!
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:55 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 994
FightingForFamily will become famous soon enough
Default

I think the overriding concern when reading your post is that fighting over the small things will end up costing you much more in legal bills. Are you really willing to spend $20k-30k over a few hundred dollars just to make a point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.
Even on $10000, this is only 800 bucks. This is 2 hours of lawyer time. Guaranteed your lawyer will charge you more than 2 hours of time to resolve it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Most activities fall under normal CS and aren't extraordinary so he shouldn't need to pay extra for quite a lot of them. As for not participating, sadly it's his week to use as he chooses. Eventually the kid(s) will get older and ask Dad to take them to their activities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)
Explain. Almost all health care is free so what's the hold up?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)
This is rude but you are in the middle of an argument heading towards litigation. I wouldn't want to talk to you either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.
Be the best parent you can be and ignore the BS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)
My ex won't even GET insurance let alone set up beneficiaries properly. Luckily this only matters if they die.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)
If you can prove it good for you, but this is often hard to prove. In the end it doesn't matter a lot. If he is working a second job to have enough money to provide a good standard of living for the kids when they are with him, is it such a bad thing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.
I still foolishly try to approach all "discussions" with my ex as an adult, offering compromise, pleading for her to communicate with me. But it didn't work when we were married it sure as hell doesn't work now. She has to win every fight, always get in the last word, and always at my expense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.
Remember that lawyers are not experts in conflict resolution, they actually specialize in conflict escalation. It's how they make their living. And the courts are the same. Once you step through those doors you are into a whole new ball game and the stakes are infinitely higher, both financially and emotionally. There are no winners in court, and there is not much peace to be found in going through that process.

If you can live with a compromise, even if you dislike it, it's probably worth doing. It's to the point now where my ex and I only have disagreements once or twice a year. Relatively peaceful.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2013, 08:56 AM
hadenough's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,468
hadenough is on a distinguished road
Default

Forget about the minutia. Narrow down the issues to 2 or 3 non-negotiables. Focus on those.

You keep going .. The pace is slow and steady, there's no fast track for this. Stay the course, focused on the non-negotiables.

It won't last forever, but it feels like it will sometimes. The system expects people to give up. Don't.

In all of this: remember not to lose yourself. Get out for walks, go for a drive, get to a gym, read a good book.. Anything that gives you some little bit of time to yourself and allows you to escape temporarily.

Remove any clutter from your life. Old clothes, toys, whatever. It will help someone else (donation) and clear up some physical space around you. Organize your paperwork, have a friend come over to help you if that will make it easier. All of these things will make it easier for you to think and focus on what's important.

I too have felt that I didn't have the emotional wherewithall (sp?) _ to get through the many hurdles I've had. Initially, I was very high strung. We need to remind ourselves to "CTFD" (calm the f*ck down ) and realize that change doesn't happen overnight, and there's only certain things we have control over.

I hope that all made sense. Good Luck.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03-08-2013, 06:22 PM
arabian's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 9,854
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

Agree with Hadenough. Focus on the important things and fight for what you and your children are entitled for. Sure it takes a while but if you don't do it no one else will and you will go through life feeling resentful and it will dribble over onto your kids.

Give your lawyer a kick in the butt and tell him to go after costs.
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2013, 09:47 AM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 20
bluemoon is on a distinguished road
Default

I think if your are familiar with the court system, why not file a motion and fight the case in your own? Usually the sp7 expenses are based on income. The extracuticular activities, you can't force him to take the kids to them. Not something you should spend money on in court, but of you are going to be self represented, might as well try it. Communication, document everything via email our even a registeref letter and you can most definitely get this solved in court.

If you have the mental strength, fight your own case. There are many free lawyers st the court house/duty counsels who can guide you.
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03-09-2013, 10:32 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,448
Mess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the rough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzie View Post
Ha. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.
8% is a fraction of costs of paying your lawyer to argue this. It is only worthwhile if you believe your incomes will have a far greater spread in the future.

Quote:
b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.
Are you gladly willing to pay your lawyer $400 an hour to try to nag your ex into taking the kids to activities? If you could "talk sense" to your ex, you very likely wouldn't be divorcing. You cannot force him to take the kids anywhere and you cannot get a court order to make him parent in a certain way.

Over time, if the kids genuinely enjoy the activities they will encourage him to take them. Otherwise it is not in your control. Your lawyer seems to be trying to encourage you to pay them to do more and more.

Quote:
c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)
What is the legal custody situation? If the children need dental care, take them. If the father disputes the necessity, require a professional diagnosis.

If the ex doesn't co-operate, you save the bills for a year, file a motion to have child support and section 7 expenses updated, and get a court order for payment. As long as your lawyer isn't dragging things out and trying to play marriage counsellor, a motion order for expenses should be a simple one page and your ex doesn't have a case to dispute it.

The downside is that you may have to absorb the expenses for a year so that you can show a signifcant amount and a pattern of behaviour. Meaning, you don't to court monthly for a few hundred dollars at a time. But do not pay your lawyer hundreds of dollars every month to argue with your ex.

Quote:
d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)
If the children are young, perhaps week on/ week off is too great a gap. Consider something like 2/2/3. Otherwise, let them call you. Without mentioning your ex, just ask them to give you a call during the week when you don't see them.

Quote:
e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.
Does your lawyer think you can get a court order to make your ex a better person? You can't control his behaviour. If you get a LOT of evidence you can challenge the custody level. You can't get a court order to make him stop lieing.

Quote:
f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)
Yes, draw a line in the sand. He provides proof of the insurance policy or seek a court order for it. But don't have your lawyer send letters about it for the next 6 months.

Quote:
g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)
Unless you have copies of bank statements or you have photos of him receiving suitcases full of cash, you have nothing. You will spend tens of thousands of dollars fighting something you can't prove.

Quote:
Background info : CS is offset of our income. Ex doesn`t pay a dime in anything other than CS.
Based on an 8% it probably isn't very much CS. Is the ex providing fully for the children when they are with him? Or do you send suitcases full of clothes every week?

Quote:
Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.
There is no need to talk to your ex. Limit yourself to one business-like email with factual details of any pertinent events the kids have on the day you send them back. Make exchanges by one parent dropping off at school and the other picking up that afternoon. There should be no reason to meet him or speak on the phone unless you are on the way to the emergency room.

Quote:
I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.
Don't engage in conflict.

Do you have a separation agreement, or are you still negotiating? The standard according to the Family Law Act is set-off child support and proportionate split of section 7 expenses (NOTE: these are not EVERY expense, and you are not clear about what you are paying "all" of.) Make a simple statement that this is what you will sign going forward.

Have you had any court action so far? If not, then if there were me I would do the following: Do not agree to a separation agreement that does not adhere to the Family Law Act. Do not continue negotiating; have your offer on the table. Pay legitimate section 7 expenses in full, and detail the amount and send it to the ex. When the total reaches a significant amount, file with the courts for payment. Do not waste money on back-and-forth between lawyers in the meantime. What you spent on lawyers can go to the children's expenses for now. Take legal action when you have built up enough reason to justify it. Stop having conversations with your ex in the meantime.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2013, 11:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 31
Suzie is on a distinguished road
Default Settlement conference?

Thank you all for your answers. They were all very helpful.

We will probably attend a settlement conference at the end of the month. I have never attended court, very newbie. Can someone tell me what to expect, how does it play out, how much I can expect to pay? How formal is this conference? Will I have the opportunity to show exchange of negociation letters and of emails, (to show that I am bending over backwards to offer solutions and suggestions the ex only has to choose which option suits him best), is this where I show my tons of receipts? Will there be opportunity for conversation and negotiation? Is this where we can explore various solutions?

Here is my latest, and probably final offer :

1. Orthodontics : I will get extra insurance during the years of treatment to help with the costs. (I will pretty much be breaking even with or without the insurance; this will only help the ex in regards to his shared proportion to pay). The remaining balance shall be split according to income. I must insist on the proportionate share as I have had cancer and my future situation is unsure (I might need to take time off my job for medical treatment) I am also offering my ex to get another opinion from another orthodontic (shared costs).


2. sharing of other S7 expenses. I will pay the entire costs of extracurricular activities (over 2000$ per year). ON THE CONDITION that he lets the kids participate in such activities. I was gonna give up this issue, but my son is personnally asking me to "convince" dad to participate or let him go to activities during his week. I am offering several solutions, one being that I will drive the kids myself during his week.

Will a judge even care that I am doing everything I can to come to a resolution? That I am offering several options and solutions; my ex only has to choose? In your experience, are judges usually reasonnable, or am I taking a total gamble?

Thanks again !
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Net worth Full_Plate Financial Issues 9 08-01-2012 10:00 PM
Lawyer (are you getting your money's worth) janedoe99 Divorce & Family Law 13 02-13-2012 11:23 AM
Chasing tax information - is it worth it? informedmom Financial Issues 8 10-05-2011 06:08 PM
Is court worth it over lack of communication? winterwolf7 Divorce & Family Law 19 07-18-2011 10:34 AM
Negative Net Worth jameswift Financial Issues 10 01-14-2010 03:53 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:51 PM.