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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-26-2014, 02:12 PM
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Default Spouse support questions

Hi,

This is my first time here.

As my wife had an adultery and got pregnant accordingly and she wants to keep the baby, I made a decision to terminate our 10-year marriage.

We have two girls (one 8 and the other 6 yrs old), and they are more attached to me than my wife because my wife's tempt is not good. I took care of both kids for over 9 months when my wife stayed abroad last October till this early July, now both kids are under my name (in CRA) for primary care.

My questions are, after our separation:
1. I will go on to raise my kids by myself, but according to the law here, I still need to support my wife, is that right?

2. if she shall pay support fee to both of our kids? If so, can I request that she needn't to pay the support fee to kids (I will cover all cost to raise both kids) as, to be honest, I wouldn't like to pay her support fee in such a case?

BTW, my wife doesn't have a job now and I'm a self-employed.

Any inputs are welcome.
Thanks.
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Old 10-26-2014, 03:55 PM
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Your post doesn't give enough details to answer what you've asked.

Having CRA listing you as the primary parent isn't really the same as having a custody agreement that lists you with sole custody. Also, having the kids being more attached to you doesn't really mean much. It is relevant that your stbx wife seemingly abandoned two small children for a number of months. Did she have any contact with the children during that time? Where does your wife reside now? Is she seeing the children on a regular basis?

As for your questions:

1) It depends. Is she capable of working? Has she worked in the past? What is her skill level, experience level, etc. Also what is her current living situation? If she's living with someone else who she's about to have a baby with...she may soon be considered common-law which may have an impact on SS. You need to provide more detail to get an answer.

2) Assuming you're able to get a sole custody order (which isn't clear based on your post)...if she gets imputed an income or ever works in the future, yes she has an obligation to support the kids. You should always include a CS agreement in any custody order.

You should really consult a lawyer for this as it sounds like it might get complicated and you have two young kids. Posters here might be able to help give you some more direct answers if you provide more detail though.
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Old 10-27-2014, 06:16 AM
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Hi Pursuinghappiness,

Thank you very much for the quick and detailed answers and your good questions which i even thought about. It helps me know more about a divorce means. Please see more details below:

"It is relevant that your stbx wife seemingly abandoned two small children for a number of months. Did she have any contact with the children during that time?"
==> Not really she abandoned us (two children and me), she still did video-chats with us via Skype once a week during that time. The reason she left abroad (actually back to her home-country) was that she couldn't get used to the life here (we are immigrants here for about 7 years).

"Where does your wife reside now?"
==> In the same house we owned.

"Is she seeing the children on a regular basis?"
==> Yes, we reside in the same house and she still does households, but I take care of children's school things.

"As for your questions:

1) It depends. Is she capable of working? Has she worked in the past?"
==> Yes, she worked before the immigration 7 years ago. but now in Canada, she tried to look for jobs and either failed interviews or being fired.

"What is her skill level, experience level, etc."
==> She took LING and passed level 5, took ELT program but couldn't finish it with only on week left. Tried to work on a couple of days in a gas station, but the boss fired her. That's all her working and studying experience in Ontario here. I discussed with her to go to a college and refresh her knowledge, she wouldn't like to go in that way as she thought that took too long and the only thing she wanted is a job quickly. Also I tried to offer her working opportunity several times every year since 2010, she wouldn't take it as she thought it's not a job she found by herself. Right now, she is pregnant and based on the facts before, I doubt she can find a job. (Forgive me to say bad things to my wife, the people around her (her parents, sister and old classmates) and I think she probably has a mental health illness but she won't admit it. I tried to persuade her to see our family doctor, she wouldn't like to do so, even for a routine examination).

"Also what is her current living situation?"
==> she still lives in the same house as us and I support everything in the family including her expense and I think I shall.

"If she's living with someone else who she's about to have a baby with...she may soon be considered common-law which may have an impact on SS. You need to provide more detail to get an answer."
==> No, the partner who made her pregnant (found out it was her ex-boyfriend before marrying to me and he just got pregnant by the end of this August when she was still abroad, she just came back to Ontario last Sunday) is in her own country. She just wants to live by herself and her new baby here in Ontario now.

"2) Assuming you're able to get a sole custody order (which isn't clear based on your post)...if she gets imputed an income or ever works in the future, yes she has an obligation to support the kids."
==> She indicated she won't take the custody of kids and she doesn't have any income in the near future. We will settle this in the agreement when preparing legal documents.

"You should always include a CS agreement in any custody order."
==> Thank you for the reminding, good to know that.

"You should really consult a lawyer for this as it sounds like it might get complicated and you have two young kids."
==> Thanks for the advice, yes, I will find a family lawyer after I get more knowledge on a divorce affair.

"Posters here might be able to help give you some more direct answers if you provide more detail though."
==> Hope the above answers and details are enough to get more inputs in my case.

She wants to settle this affair between us and we will fill out all necessary forms and documents by ourselves. So she might feel guilty on us (I hope so).

In addition, I have another couple of questions:
1. is it permitted to apply for a divorce when she is pregnant now though the baby is not mine?
2. shall I have an obligation to support that new baby in her belly besides herself after the divorce?

Thank you all for any inputs.

Last edited by sangdy; 10-27-2014 at 06:24 AM. Reason: typos corrected
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-27-2014, 10:08 AM
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Hi Sangdy,

I'm very sorry to hear how bad things are going for you...

Here in Canada your wife is legally required to support her children to the best of her ability. She is also legally required to support herself.

Even if she leaves Canada and returns to her home country, she is STILL required to support them. Depending on the country, they may even take away (garnish) her salary to pay for her children here in Canada.

It sounds like your wife has a good case for you to support her. This is called spousal support. Normally this would last for about half the length of the marriage. So you would pay her for 5 years. We would need more information about salary numbers to give a fair estimate of how much money it would be.

She needs to do better in her search for work... life is not free here or anywhere else. She needs to send you a few hundred dollars a month for her children.

As for your last two question:

1. Not really, in Canada divorce is "no fault". You can apply for a divorce when you live apart from her 1 year. You do have to wait the year, but no reason is needed to end the marriage.

2. No, the man who she was with must also send her money to support his child with her. It is not your responsibility.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:10 AM
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I think you will have a very hard time getting any $ from her to support your kids. 'No blood from a stone.' The time and legal expense will just not be worth it.

But maybe assuming she comes after you for spousal support you can bargain down the amount because you are supporting the kids on your own. But...she can argue the spousal support guidelines/calculations already take this into account...read on below....

Have a look at mysupportcalculator online site for quick spousal + child support calculations. This site uses the ssag (spousal support advisory guidelines- google it) , which has a formula specifically for your situation ( spousal support payor has full care of kids)

Also see here Family Law - Justice Ontario for general info on support and family law issues

Last edited by dinkyface; 10-27-2014 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 10-27-2014, 11:28 AM
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Although there is 'no fault' divorce, if you can prove adultery, you can get your divorce expedited, and wont' have to wait one year post separation.

I hate to say this, but are you concerned about the paternity of your other children?

If you're still sharing a house, that's good. Don't leave the house, and don't let her remove the kids from the house. You're at a very delicate stage, where anything you do wrong can impact the custody of your kids.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Straittohell View Post
Although there is 'no fault' divorce, if you can prove adultery, you can get your divorce expedited, and wont' have to wait one year post separation.

I hate to say this, but are you concerned about the paternity of your other children?

If you're still sharing a house, that's good. Don't leave the house, and don't let her remove the kids from the house. You're at a very delicate stage, where anything you do wrong can impact the custody of your kids.
Thank you for the reply Straittohell.

No, so far I can still take care of them as I'm self-employed and working at home. Actually since last October till today, it's me to take care of everything for both children, both children won't listen to her due to her temper is not good, even to our children.

We are still sharing the house. Thanks for the advice and reminding, I will keep it in mind.
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
Hi Sangdy,

I'm very sorry to hear how bad things are going for you...

Here in Canada your wife is legally required to support her children to the best of her ability. She is also legally required to support herself.

Even if she leaves Canada and returns to her home country, she is STILL required to support them. Depending on the country, they may even take away (garnish) her salary to pay for her children here in Canada.

It sounds like your wife has a good case for you to support her. This is called spousal support. Normally this would last for about half the length of the marriage. So you would pay her for 5 years. We would need more information about salary numbers to give a fair estimate of how much money it would be.

She needs to do better in her search for work... life is not free here or anywhere else. She needs to send you a few hundred dollars a month for her children.

As for your last two question:

1. Not really, in Canada divorce is "no fault". You can apply for a divorce when you live apart from her 1 year. You do have to wait the year, but no reason is needed to end the marriage.

2. No, the man who she was with must also send her money to support his child with her. It is not your responsibility.
Thanks a lot for the reply and the answers to my additional two questions. I don't have any expectation to ask her to support our children, and to me, the less I pay the support to her the better as I wouldn't like to pay it in such a case. Who knows? (sigh...)
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Old 10-27-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sangdy View Post
Thanks a lot for the reply and the answers to my additional two questions. I don't have any expectation to ask her to support our children, and to me, the less I pay the support to her the better as I wouldn't like to pay it in such a case. Who knows? (sigh...)
She is legally obligated to support her children. If she is able to work, and doesn't, she can be imputed a minimum wage, which would be able $24,000 a year.

So you should do the math. In all likelyhood, she would owe more child support than you would owe spousal support, so you use one to offset the other.

Use www.mysupportcalculator.ca to estimate.
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Old 10-27-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sangdy View Post
Thanks a lot for the reply and the answers to my additional two questions. I don't have any expectation to ask her to support our children, and to me, the less I pay the support to her the better as I wouldn't like to pay it in such a case. Who knows? (sigh...)
It's not about your expectation, but about Canadian Law.

Before separation/divorce people are pretty much free to do what they want with their work and salary. As soon as you separate however, these laws kick into effect and put the legal obligation to work like a slave. If you choose not to work, you still have to pay. If you don't pay, they take your driver's license, passport, bank accounts, government benefits and so on.

Coming up with agreements that don't take the law into count is a terrible idea because at any point, one of the parties can walk into a court house, have the agreement thrown away and have the law enforced instead.

For example, you can offer her $500,000 cash so that you won't pay spousal support. She can accept the money, and then take you to court for the support money as well. The cash could be seen as a gift or equalization.

It is better to have an agreement that addresses all points of the law so that it is legally enforceable and has as little wiggle room as possible.

I don't know how much money you make, but your ex wife may be entitled to $5000 per month from you. If she doesn't work, she would perhaps pay $500 in child support. Your agreement should include both appoints, and the wording has to indicate that the money is being exchanged "but for convenience" you would send $4500.

If you don't word it this way for example, you can't claim it on your taxes as a deduction.
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