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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr.Worthless View Post
How can I force her in to treatment, I'm sorry I'm not educated in this area.

AND if I do force her she would do what do you think??? Kiss me or kill me.
You can bet CAS will be involved, do I want or need that on top of everything I have to deal with now. No I do not.
Because I'm on this forum doesn't mean I'm looking to join the club.
I'm at my wits ends and trying to educate myself. Like I said I love my wife Its what's she doing that I hate.
I cant make a decision until I know my options, what if I make the wrong choice and everything just gets worse?
Doesn't matter if she wants to kiss you or kill you, it's the right thing to do and in the best interests of the children, it's not about you. Speak with her/yours family and friends and stage an intervention if that's what it takes. There are professionals who can help you do this if needed:

Turning Point Detox

This one^^ is fairly inexpensive and offers help & resources for families and friends on intervening.

You know that you have to make a decision in one direction or another. If you choose not to then you can expect things to continue on the same destructive path until they are no longer fixable.

Last edited by blinkandimgone; 07-22-2012 at 12:06 PM.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:10 PM
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I agree with blinkandimgone.

Last edited by Access Dad; 07-22-2012 at 01:12 PM.
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 07-22-2012, 10:11 PM
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The narcotics can kill a person bit by bit on the inside and since I use this medication because there is no alternative treatment to manage what for me has become severe chronic pain. I have dealt with pain for 25 years now, just had my 11th surgery and I follow a very closely monitored program that I willingly accept. I have seen many specialists if nothng else to confirm that the narcotics are indeed the only real option which gives both my GP and myself a little bit a security knowing that we are making the right decisions for me.

I have been using the strong pain pills for 9 years now - and my daily and weekly average goes up and down and I see the psychiatrist and the social worker and my GP actually devotes the first half of my appointment to stay on top of me, the person who is doing their very best to be the best person I can be for my family and especially our kids. Thankfully my kids are now older but I fully understand that it is not just one person who suffers from this - every person in the household pays a small price in this.

To be frankly honest, of the last 20 years that I have basically gone alone in this, the one single thing I regret is when I lost my ability to cope with what I had in the past always managed, I have learned that the time in which I needed my wife, my partner, the very most; actually it is easy to say that I needed anyone in my life, my wife couldn't be that person. So if there is even one more go, one last try and you are willing to give 100% - Your wife will need to commit 200% and if what has happened in your lives up to now hasn't rang her alarm bell - nothing will. It is a simple way of looking at a complex issue but there really is one answer (IMHO - having been there alone)

I suggest you make an emergency appointment with her GP, I would hope that you will be able to have an open conversation but this will mean having to bring your wife along to give her permission for her doctor to discuss this very personal issue. You have a minimum requirement regarding your wife moving forward and as you put it you can't force her to the help but you can put it blank in her face. This is a public forum so without the detail if I were your wife I would want this, sometimes a doctor being point blank with the patient, your wife, that she may actually hear - she has no choice! She (here I can't say what I want - I just do not know your details) This is her last shot, she has to be given the chance, maybe the last of her many chances but this new doctor will be a big part of her solution.

You must really want this for it to work or it will not. Your wife will need to actually hear that she has a chance but for you to move forward she really doesn't have a choice.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 07-23-2012, 03:04 PM
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Forcing individuals to undergo treatment for substance abuse may be seen as violating their civil liberties.

In Canada, this could result in legal challenges under the
Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Forcing individuals to undergo treatment for substance abuse may be seen as violating their civil liberties.


TheCanadian Code of Ethics for Psychologists requires psychologists to recognize the self-determination and personal liberty of the clients whom they serve.
Treating clients on an involuntary basis may place licensed psychologists and other professionals in violation of this code.


Other ethical issues for human service providers involved in mandatory or coerced treatment may involve potential breaches of client confidentiality when legal and court-appointed case management authorities enter into the treatment process (similar dilemmas can be found in criminal justice contexts)



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Old 07-23-2012, 04:16 PM
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yes.... but that is an extremely GREY area!!

The ongoing question that professionals in these fields work with is 'when does one clients own rights outweigh the rights of others (i.e. their children)' One of my parents is a registered Social Worker and we've often discussed the ethics involved, and how hard the decision is at times......
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddol1 View Post
The narcotics can kill a person bit by bit on the inside and since I use this medication because there is no alternative treatment to manage what for me has become severe chronic pain. I have dealt with pain for 25 years now, just had my 11th surgery and I follow a very closely monitored program that I willingly accept. I have seen many specialists if nothng else to confirm that the narcotics are indeed the only real option which gives both my GP and myself a little bit a security knowing that we are making the right decisions for me.

I have been using the strong pain pills for 9 years now - and my daily and weekly average goes up and down and I see the psychiatrist and the social worker and my GP actually devotes the first half of my appointment to stay on top of me, the person who is doing their very best to be the best person I can be for my family and especially our kids. Thankfully my kids are now older but I fully understand that it is not just one person who suffers from this - every person in the household pays a small price in this.

To be frankly honest, of the last 20 years that I have basically gone alone in this, the one single thing I regret is when I lost my ability to cope with what I had in the past always managed, I have learned that the time in which I needed my wife, my partner, the very most; actually it is easy to say that I needed anyone in my life, my wife couldn't be that person. So if there is even one more go, one last try and you are willing to give 100% - Your wife will need to commit 200% and if what has happened in your lives up to now hasn't rang her alarm bell - nothing will. It is a simple way of looking at a complex issue but there really is one answer (IMHO - having been there alone)

I suggest you make an emergency appointment with her GP, I would hope that you will be able to have an open conversation but this will mean having to bring your wife along to give her permission for her doctor to discuss this very personal issue. You have a minimum requirement regarding your wife moving forward and as you put it you can't force her to the help but you can put it blank in her face. This is a public forum so without the detail if I were your wife I would want this, sometimes a doctor being point blank with the patient, your wife, that she may actually hear - she has no choice! She (here I can't say what I want - I just do not know your details) This is her last shot, she has to be given the chance, maybe the last of her many chances but this new doctor will be a big part of her solution.

You must really want this for it to work or it will not. Your wife will need to actually hear that she has a chance but for you to move forward she really doesn't have a choice.

I was born and raised in Kingston, Lots of memories.
Thank you for the advice, I love my wife I hate what has happened. Emotions sometimes makes us forget that, or me anyways.

Up until now I haven't really shared this with anyone. Its extremely hard to do this alone. My wife is a good person, I've spent sometime researching and see how this can happen to just about anyone.
My next move is her Doctor, I have an appointment Thursday with just myself and the Doctor. I don't want to bring my wife just yet and make her feel like we are "ganging" up on her and she shuts down and wont be open.

We have made some progress, she has expressed a hatred to my job. It takes me from the house 21days at a time. I then return for 14 then gone again for 21 days. I can see how this is hard for her. Things to think about. If my job is part of the problem then maybe I should look for something that keeps me closer to home. Or if they would move to Alberta it would allow me to be home daily 365 days a year. I doubt they will want to move and the thought of a career change at 42 is not overly attractive to me. BUT if its the underlying problem then it might be for every ones best interest.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 08:58 AM
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Have you put her to an ultimatum of rehab or divorce? I know it is not the most pleasant scenario, but it may show her how serious you believe this issue to be.

But what you need to do is stop acting somewhat defeatist. Unless you regularly work out of town or work rediculous hours, you argue for shared custody and 50/50 parenting time. You will likely have to pay her support still, but it will be offset.

There is no more reason for her to have the house than you. It is matrimonial property and either spouse is entitled to it. One of three things will happen:

1. the house is sold and the proceeds are split between the two of you.

2. you get the house but have to buy your ex out her share of the equity in the house.

3. she gets the house and has to buy you out of your equity in it.

The vacation house, well that is likely going to be a casualty to divorce. It happens, and it isn't the end of the world.

But focus on your kids. Be superdad. Be a buffer between them and your ex when she is out of it. If she gets aggresive with you, call the cops!! Don't sit there and take it. It is bad for you as you have to take it. It is bad for the kids as they have to see. And it sets a bad environment in general. And I bet she'd call the cops on you if roles were reversed.

If you see the relationship start to really sour or you are both living in the house during the divorce, protect yourself by having a digital voice recorder on you at all times in the house. Journal all your involvement with the kids. If you made them breakfast, helped with homework, took them to baseball etc. Don't list what you ex doesn't do. No one cares. Just list what you do.

And start cutting your ex off. Close joint accounts and open a new one in your own name. Pay for the utilities out of that account. Transfer enough money into the joint account for the household needs.

But otherwise, let her know that this is serious. Tell her to make a choice, the drugs or you. But protect yourself, your kids and your relationship with the kids.

Oh, and most importantly DON'T MOVE OUT!!!!!! I don't care how bad you feel or what sword you want to fall on. If you move out, you are essentially telling the world your ex is the primary parent of the kids and you will have a high chance of getting the every-other-weekend-daddy-screwjob instead of 50-50.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 09:53 AM
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For better or for worse. This is worse. Do everything you can to get her the help she needs before you consider divorce. Separating from her with her in this state is not good for your kids at all.

Can you suggest they move out west for a year, to try it? Get her medical help out there for the addiction of course. Or take a leave of absence from your work for a few months to live with your wife while she tries rehab? Sell the vacation home to finance it if you have to. You'd lose it anyway in divorce. This business of you being away from the home for so long is probably incredibly stressful, and she's found narcotics are the stress-reliever she can't cope without. With you around more, suggest that she find a part-time job. She may find this a boost to her self-esteem and give her some confidence to beat the addiction.

Drug addiction is a powerful thing. Without the right help, many addicts choose drugs over family. I say choose, but it isn't really a choice for them. It isn't lack of love for you or her kids, it is the potency of addiction. If she's that affected, giving her the ultimatum of divorce isn't going to help her. Different people need different motivations, and you need to help her find hers.

We are a divorce forum; what you need is a support group for family members of addicts. They'll be able to give you much better suggestions for coping and helping her. All we can do is give you tips to prepare for the worst case scenario that she can't beat it and you do give up on her and get divorced. Which would be to make your children your priority, as none of this is their fault and they are so vulnerable to it but powerless to affect anything.

Good luck.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post
Have you put her to an ultimatum of rehab or divorce? I know it is not the most pleasant scenario, but it may show her how serious you believe this issue to be.
I disagree, wholeheartedly. The only guarantee that EVER comes from an ultimatum is that one person WILL come away unhappy and resentful of the other party.

As well, this tactic typically means that one feels they are in a position of authority over the other which entitles them TO issue an ultimatum. It's a control mechanism used by those who feel a lack of control over the other person and the situation. They are equals and should be treated as such.

Ultimatums should NEVER be used in a relationship, for any reason whatsoever.

I absolutely agree with speaking to her doctor. He will not be able to discuss the patient specifically, however can certainly listen to his concerns and offer suggestions on how to proceed.
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 07-24-2012, 11:40 AM
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I agree with Blink. If you give your wife an ultimatum me or drugs, then you had better be prepared to follow through on your threat. It's no different than telling the children "wait until your father gets home". If you don't act upon it, then it falls on deaf ears.

When children grow up they don't tell their parents I want to be an addict. Addiction no longer becomes a choice but a way of life. Unless you have lived with an addict, have children that are addicts or you yourself are one it cannot be turned off with a switch.

Often when narcotics are prescribed for pain one quickly realized that's not all they are getting from this drug. It can either calm them down or hype them up and experiencing the pleasure is usually what continues them to seek more. By the time they realized the hole they are in their drug of choice is needed just to stay normal.

Remember the song "Mother's little helper" by the rolling stones....many will not (lol) I remember it well and that's what it's about..her little pill to help her cope. Check the lyrics.
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