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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2014, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Rioe View Post


In stressful times, men more often react with aggression and women more often react with depression. Suicide in men strikes me as an expression of aggression turned on themselves, and probably in some ways as a perceived form of punishment against their ex. Men commit suicide when they have everything (children) taken away and have nothing left to live for. Maybe women do not commit suicide nearly as often because their children are not usually taken away - they may remain depressed, but they do not have that same overwhelming sense of loss and they still have responsibilities.
True ^^^when men feel overwhelmed many will act out in negative ways. We read horror stories about men who will murder their Ex's, own children before committing suicide ... it's a rare thing for a woman take that direction.

Crown granted leave to appeal Guy Turcotte's bail - Montreal - CBC News

In the above case the father murdered his 2 small children, at trial he claimed that it was depression and suicidal thoughts brought on by divorce that led him to commit these acts. This person is a cardiologist who had plenty of access to medical support and the training to recognize that he was at risk of losing it ....
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Old 10-10-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Janibel View Post
True ^^^when men feel overwhelmed many will act out in negative ways. We read horror stories about men who will murder their Ex's, own children before committing suicide ... it's a rare thing for a woman take that direction.

Crown granted leave to appeal Guy Turcotte's bail - Montreal - CBC News

In the above case the father murdered his 2 small children, at trial he claimed that it was depression and suicidal thoughts brought on by divorce that led him to commit these acts. This person is a cardiologist who had plenty of access to medical support and the training to recognize that he was at risk of losing it ....
Logic goes completely out the window for people contemplating suicide. Depression and stress blind people from even seeing solutions, much less putting in effort to find them and implement them. In my limited experience, I've seen a rationale for suicide to be "I've got nothing to live for and I'm making everyone around me miserable, so they would be better off if I was dead." Unfortunately, the rationale for a man's murder-suicide is often either "This woman does not deserve to live so I'm going to kill her, but no child should lose their mother so the child is better off dead, and then I will have nothing to live for, so I'll end by killing myself," or "I'm going to kill myself anyway, so I'll escape any punishment for killing the woman I hate first, and then the children will be better off dead than orphans." The rare women who act out similarly usually skip the murder of the ex-husband, but do kill the children first because when they have decided to kill themselves, they believe that the children are better off dead than mother-less.

To a non-depressed person, it's completely unfathomable. To a depressed and suicidal person, their death is the only positive outcome they can see. A suicidal person often sees their own death as much a benefit to their survivors as they do an escape for themselves. While they even understand that their families will be devastated by the suicide, they believe that overall, the pain will be temporary and less harmful overall to them than a lifetime of dealing with the depressed person. A depressed person cannot internalize that people love them anymore, and believe they must be a burden to their family members that they want to relieve them of.

Unless you've suffered depression or even just skirted the edges of it, it's hard to understand the 'thinking,' but overall the common theme is that they believe that the world will be a better place without them and the target of their rage, and the children are better off dead too instead of having to deal with the aftermath.
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:38 PM
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The legal system in Ontario is a mess. It's a system that favours those with high conflict personalities, and bankrupts those who are trying to get what they are owed/deserved.
I'm wondering if anyone has any status on people going through divorce, and how many have committed suicide ? how many have contemplated ?
I actually don't necessarily agree with this statement.

I think that people with high-conflict personalities often get away with nothing in family court.

I don't think people give judges enough credit. They've heard all the bullcrap and all of the ones I had did an excellent job of filtering out the nonsense and drilling down on the point to drive us to settlement.

I think people that bring fraudulent, hysterical, blathering nonsense to court often end up ticking off the judge and getting their ass handed to them.

When it gets messy is when the other litigant deals with an HC by resorting to the same stupid tactics. By keeping a level head, presenting evidence, and rising above the crap, a lot of litigants do very well. I did and so did people like FB and WorkingDad. Frankly, my experience through the divorce system wasn't negative at all. I had an excellent, level-headed, comparatively inexpensive lawyer who gave me great advice. I had excellent, smart judges who made fair decisions. I had a wonderful custody evaluator who listened to me and more importantly, listened to my kid. And although it took a long time and I had to make compromises, things worked out fine.

Divorce can be a positive thing and for a lot of people, even when its expensive, its worth every penny. I can't say I ever once contemplated suicide in divorce or at any other time in my life. I've travelled to places where people have real problems...ie, women get forced into marriage/slavery and will never have the right to divorce, people who watch their kids starve to death or worry about bombs raining from the sky, people who have no freedom to vote or protest. Divorce is a 1st world problem...so is suicide.
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Old 10-10-2014, 03:54 PM
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According to statistics often mentioned by Dr Warren Farrell and others, during divorce men commit suicide at a rate 10 times higher than the average... but I would accept that 3 to 1 is a good overall average across life.

The problem is that men are less likely to share their problems with others (especially other men) and instead internalize them. They are not as good with emotions, don't know how to express them, and most men lack emotional support outside of their spouses (who are now their mortal enemies).

I do remember feeling so powerless and frustrated a few times that I wanted to drive my car into a wall, but it was a fleeting thought and nothing ever came of it.

As a man I have friends, many of them, but our friendships are about doing things together, common interests and hobbies and hanging out. Male friends generally do not get involved in the emotional problems of their other male friends.

Men have a hard time showing or admitting weakness and getting help. It took a lot for me to visit my family doctor and beg for antidepressants. Much to my horror, she refused to prescribe them and told me to "man up". She is no longer my doctor.

I had profound feelings of anger and sadness, but the part of divorce that finally drove me deep into depression and anxiety was being investigated for false allegations of child sexual abuse for nearly a year. I'm OK now but those feelings are always with me and can resurface when triggered.

Last edited by FightingForFamily; 10-10-2014 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 10-10-2014, 04:08 PM
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Or even better, is when a woman does all of the above...
you have got to be kidding?? So its not as bad when a man does the same thing?? It doesn't matter what sex does it. Its all bad.
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Old 10-10-2014, 04:32 PM
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I had profound feelings of anger and sadness, but the part of divorce that finally drove me deep into depression and anxiety was being investigated for false allegations of child sexual abuse for nearly a year. I'm OK now but those feelings are always with me and can resurface when triggered.
People who have been proven to have made false allegations of child abuse or domestic violence need to be prosecuted. I'm really tired of people doing this to gain custody advantage. My ex actually tried to suggest at one point that I was verbally abusive to both of my children and that they were afraid of me. The actual reverse was and still is true.

The only punitive measures against these types of allegations is that they get ignored in divorce court and that is ridiculous. Where someone can prove that they've suffered financially and emotionally due to false criminal allegations...serious penalties need to be levelled. This should include potential criminal prosecution and civil fines.

In general, one of the biggest issues with family court is that when someone blatantly lies to gain advantage...which lawyers are often complicit in...nothing really happens. So its actually sometimes advantageous to lie. Over time, the tangible penalty may be a loss of credibility over a long period but in the short term, if they get away with it, it can be very advantageous. More serious penalties against litigants and especially legal professionals need to be levelled when someone knowingly files false accusations in affidavits. It would make someone think twice about piling their statements full of crap.
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Old 10-10-2014, 04:50 PM
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Based on my reading, the problem is that it's very hard to prove a "good faith" false allegation caused by confusion, misunderstanding, fear and doubt versus one that is deliberately and maliciously concocted.

Proving "bad faith" is not easy in court because the evidence of it is so scarce.

But yes, I basically agree. I even think "good faith" false allegations should be strongly sanctioned so people don't introduce them to the record without seriously thinking about what they are doing.

A police file or a CAS case record stay around forever, even if they "closed".
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Old 10-10-2014, 05:00 PM
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My ex lied to get me in court for contempt where she asked I be jailed (over 3000$ - while she gets 2300$/month). She admitted to completely making it up IN COURT the judge basically said "Your client is admitting she had no basis for this allegation in her sworn affidavit" and he noted it in the judgement but you know what, NOTHING HAPPENED.

The worst part is that if she had NOT made the allegation the hearing wouldn't have even happened because without that specific allegation the judge said i won't call a hearing for contempt. So her lawyer and her went back REWROTE the same affidavit adding that specific allegation and the judge accepted it.

My ex throws SO MUCH shit at me at court that I waste so much time defending with it and the worst that happened was that.

You are rewarded or ignored for lying - that is about it.
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Old 10-10-2014, 05:15 PM
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A very interesting article was in the Huffington Post today about depression.


Huffington Post Canada - Canadian News Stories, Breaking News, Opinion
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Old 10-10-2014, 05:31 PM
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^^^ 20% of Canadians will personally experience a mental illness in their lifetime - Canadian Mental Health Association.

I suspect that the actual numbers are higher than this - many cases go undiagnosed with people self-medicating with street drugs and/or booze. My ex has serious alcohol addiction, he would get drunk to avoid facing some early childhood trauma.
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