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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 03:05 PM
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It sounds like you expected your partner to change. If he was worth marrying and worth having a family with he should have met your expectations from the start without you needing to nag him about how he wasn't meeting your expectations for X years. He probably also had expectations which were not being met.
Idiotic comment. I was married for over 20 years...so change is a pretty standard requirement for both partners. When I married, I didn't have kids...or a busy career...or a giant house. Circumstances change and partners need to step up to the plate as they do. Change is a constant. Its a cliche and a dumb one to say that someone shouldn't change in a relationship. Relationship and the people in them should naturally evolve and if they don't do it while considering the other's partner's modified needs, expect a problem.


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The statistics suggest that as they grow up, reach adulthood and try to have their own families they will lack all the skills to do so successfully.
I'm the product of a divorce as are my siblings....all of us went to university and all of us have jobs. Guess your statistics, again, don't apply to me. I don't have little children either...and my eldest made it through university during the most heated part of our divorce. So I guess those statistics are useless when compared to specific cases.

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Do I really need to quote statistics about how many people in jail were raised by single moms? Isn't it above 90%?
Being a single mom isn't the same as being a divorced mom. Apples to orange comparison.

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So what exactly did the guy do wrong? He provided for his family, he loved his kids, he was involved in his family with the time he had. And now she will dump him, take half his stuff plus half his salary in SS and ride off into the sunset to seek greener pastures. She considers her husband "unbearable", just as you all claim. But honestly, what did he do wrong? Whose expectations were not realistic?
I'm not going to bother commenting on a simplistic, male-oriented, made-up story.

If you don't like that women have the right to get divorced, move to a country where they have no rights and are treated like chattel...there's lot of them around.

I think if a woman or man finds their marriage unbearable and cannot find a way to resolve the issue, its perfectly reasonable to seek a divorce. I disagree that its unhealthy for everyone involved. In fact, I think its often exactly the opposite.

By the way, it pretty much just sounds like you're ticked off that women often get divorced and end up happier and more fulfilled out of it.

Last edited by Pursuinghappiness; 09-24-2013 at 03:09 PM.
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
I think if a woman or man finds their marriage unbearable and cannot find a way to resolve the issue, its perfectly reasonable to seek a divorce. I disagree that its unhealthy for everyone involved. In fact, I think its often exactly the opposite.

By the way, it pretty much just sounds like you're ticked off that women often get divorced and end up happier and more fulfilled out of it.
Actually I find it insane that there is a multi-billion dollar industry dedicated to divorce and breaking families up and virtually nothing to help people find ways to resolve their issues and stay together. As you point out, people need to find ways other than divorce to help work on the issues in their marriages. Very few people even try, and very often only one person is even remotely aware that a divorce is being considered by one person because an ambush is the best way to get away with whatever vengeance is going to be exacted on the unsuspecting spouse to initiate the divorce.

It is trivial and in your words happier and more fulfilling to walk away from the lifelong commitment you made. Being trained to treat men as a disposable asset and a utility, a human-doing rather than a human-being, is one of the saddest realities of today's society.

I found my marriage very stifling, I felt very sedated and heavily under the control of my strong-willed ex wife. Everything we did was her way. One day I stood up for something I believed in and I would not back down on it. For her, that was the last straw. Within two weeks I was penniless and homeless. Because she couldn't control me any more, she decided I was "out of control".

By most measures I am happier now than I was when married, but it has come with a high cost.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
Actually I find it insane that there is a multi-billion dollar industry dedicated to divorce and breaking families up and virtually nothing to help people find ways to resolve their issues and stay together. As you point out, people need to find ways other than divorce to help work on the issues in their marriages. Very few people even try, and very often only one person is even remotely aware that a divorce is being considered by one person because an ambush is the best way to get away with whatever vengeance is going to be exacted on the unsuspecting spouse to initiate the divorce.

It is trivial and in your words happier and more fulfilling to walk away from the lifelong commitment you made. Being trained to treat men as a disposable asset and a utility, a human-doing rather than a human-being, is one of the saddest realities of today's society.

I found my marriage very stifling, I felt very sedated and heavily under the control of my strong-willed ex wife. Everything we did was her way. One day I stood up for something I believed in and I would not back down on it. For her, that was the last straw. Within two weeks I was penniless and homeless. Because she couldn't control me any more, she decided I was "out of control".

By most measures I am happier now than I was when married, but it has come with a high cost.
I stupidly tried counselling twice to fix our marriage. Didn't make much difference. But my case involved mental illness. Looking back I should have done it while she was in the hospital and ambushed her like you said.
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 04:37 PM
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Very few people even try
I disagree with this statement. I think a lot of people try and are unsuccessful.

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...and very often only one person is even remotely aware that a divorce is being considered by one person because an ambush is the best way to get away with whatever vengeance is going to be exacted on the unsuspecting spouse to initiate the divorce
Another generalization. A lot of people that claim to be blindsided by divorce are simply in denial of the other person's misery. Their needs are met so they just don't care and don't think the other person is going to get fed-up enough to pull the trigger. The very idea that there's a pack of women (or men) sitting around pretending to be happy so they can ambush their spouse in divorce is ridiculous.

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It is trivial and in your words happier and more fulfilling to walk away from the lifelong commitment you made. Being trained to treat men as a disposable asset and a utility, a human-doing rather than a human-being, is one of the saddest realities of today's society.
I was married for over 20 years...so there was nothing trivial about my personal experience in marriage. I find it interesting that think you know how I was "trained." Your projections are telling....its clear that you feel that you were treated this way. And that's a shame but its specific to your circumstance.

Quote:
I found my marriage very stifling, I felt very sedated and heavily under the control of my strong-willed ex wife. Everything we did was her way. One day I stood up for something I believed in and I would not back down on it. For her, that was the last straw. Within two weeks I was penniless and homeless. Because she couldn't control me any more, she decided I was "out of control".

By most measures I am happier now than I was when married, but it has come with a high cost.
I'm sorry for your personal experience but it only applies to you. My divorce has been financially trying but well worth the expense. As I stated, a lot of women on this forum will tell you that they are happier and more functional as women and mothers divorced and it seems that you really have a problem with that.
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:54 PM
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I would likely have to check "all of the above" to try to narrow down the reason my ex and I are no longer married.

Some people might feel like they were ambushed at the time of the initial separation. I understand this but then sometimes there is valid reason for one party to move quickly. In my case my ex was served papers within a week. I knew I needed to act quickly, and he was indeed very surprised, but I wasn't quick enough. Ex had been manoeuvring things for many months. I didn't find this out until some time after our initial separation.

Separation/divorce is dirty business. Positioning is critical. People don't play nice.

Our divorce, like so many, was peppered with high drama. I often shake my head when reading the overused term "high conflict" on this forum. I suspect that most of us are all high conflict at one time or another.

I too was tired of being the maid/banker/caterer. I definitely gave up a nice lifestyle when I divorced. I think my ex and I stayed in the marriage for too long simply because we both feared change and were very used to being room mates. I probably would have stayed married had it not been for the change in my then-husband. I was physically frightened of him. The other woman was the icing on the cake.

Freedom!
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Old 09-24-2013, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post

I found my marriage very stifling, I felt very sedated and heavily under the control of my strong-willed ex wife. Everything we did was her way. One day I stood up for something I believed in and I would not back down on it. For her, that was the last straw. Within two weeks I was penniless and homeless. Because she couldn't control me any more, she decided I was "out of control".

By most measures I am happier now than I was when married, but it has come with a high cost.
For me even giving my ex $500 / month in offset CS leaves me with way more money. She would normally spend double to triple that on crap.

For the first time in a long time I have a positive bank balance, savings, increased RRSP contributions, and no debt.

I also have happiness, sanity, an active social life, participation in my own extra curricular activities and strengthened relationships with my friends and family not to mention my kids.
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 05:14 PM
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Karver - wanted to comment about "bonding" in response to your posts.

When my son was younger he preferred his father. When son was sick he cried for his father - not me. I admit my ex was a much better nurturer when my son was very young. My ex was confident with babies and really was quite awesome with son until he was around age 8. AT that age my ex became a total ahole towards his son. His father tried to get him into hockey but he refused. He father tried to get him interested in cars/mechanics but he wasn't interested. His father then treated him with great disdain. I guess I got used to this. It was after our divorce that friends pointed out was a lousy parent my ex was. They had held their opinions (rightfully so) throughout most of our marriage. My ex's anger was so bad that he actually picked my son up and threw him on a marble floor, breaking his arm when he was around 12. Family doctor warned my ex that if anything happened again he would be reported. Friends never forgot this and were very quick to remind me of this through divorce.

I guess what I'm saying is that my ex was the one who bonded very early with our son but as the years went on this "bond" disintegrated. Today, son is adult and has absolutely nothing to do with father. I think it is very, very sad.

You have many, many years ahead of you to develop a meaningful relationship with your children. At the start of many separations, it seems to me that many people get at logger heads with each other by trying to be perfect parents - outdoing the other one.

About the hired help - many people have lifetime relationships with a childhood nanny. If it makes you feel any better just look at the future King of England. His parents (Kate and Wills) have hired the former royal nanny. I sense that your post alludes to a fear that the nanny will become the children's new Mommy? Hey even if your ex does decide to hook up with the hired help, YOU will always be the mom!!!!!
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 09-24-2013, 05:54 PM
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Just wanted to add to arabian's account above:

My story is similar, except I've got a daughter instead of a son. She and her father bonded very early on, during her toddler years. After her birth, I struggled with post-partum depression for a long time, and he stepped up (which I have to give him credit for) - but he never stepped back to include me. He was determined she was going to be "daddy's girl", and used bribes, excessive generosity, and emotional manipulation to create a preference for him. (For instance, he didn't want me to go anywhere with her if he wasn't coming, and didn't want her to be home alone with me - and in the guise of "reassuring" her, would tell her things like "Don't worry, it's only an hour with Mommy, then Daddy will be back and you'll be okay", or "You don't want to go to the playground with Mommy, come shopping with me and we'll go to ToysRUs"). This became a *huge* struggle in the marriage, and led to a breakdown in marriage counselling, which is where I first heard the term "parental alienation".

If I had to point to one thing which led me to leave, it would be that. I believed (and I was right) that she would receive much better parenting with parents who were completely separated. I have come to think that for him, our daughter was an object to prop up his ego - she belonged to him and couldn't be "shared" with me. He saw my efforts to be her mother as competition for his spot in the centre of her universe, which he secured with endless treats and indulgence.

At the time we separated, ex informed me that "[daughter] doesn't really love you, I'm her real parent" and "you're not important to [daughter]". I stood my ground and insisted on 50/50 parenting, but nervously, because I feared our daughter would resent me and want her dad all the time. Looking back, I can't believe how brainwashed I was.

Fast forward nearly three years, and D8 and I have an excellent relationship, better than I would ever have thought possible. Being a single parent (especially with an unco-operative other parent) is exhausting and lonely and sometimes almost impossibly hard - but it is so worth it. At the moment, I have become the "preferred" parent and she wants to be with me all the time, because of issues at her father's house, though I know that this could turn around any time and she might not think I'm so wonderful in a few months time. But I'm okay with that.

Long story short - from my experience, nothing can replace a parent (mother or father) in a child's heart. And as arabian says, you have years and years to build a powerful bond with your child. The way things are now is not the way things will always be. You can build a relationship with your child over time which will last forever.
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 03:38 AM
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I am going through that initial rough stage... I believe all marriages need to be romanticized before onset (else why become married?). Once in the marriage couples need to stay focused on making eachother happy. If one stops (or the other thinks he/she stops), fighting begins. It's that simple.

That being said, in my mind divorce isn't the answer (unless violence/drugs etc). Because my wife was unhappy for a short time (in my eyes it was about 8-12 months), she feels its the right course of action. This is having a profoundly negative effect on everyone around her. All so that she can feel happy again. I want her to be happy. It's just that I feel like I can make her happy. If she just would just stick with me I know we could be great.

Losing half the time with your children, becoming less secure economically, and permanently severing ties to some friends (mutual ones), all in an attempt to start fresh isn't the only path.

I am emotionally compromised, so please take my humble opinion lightly. Some people do well/better after divorce. But it's hearsay to know how they would be doing if they had remained a family.

I've been on every website and MOST say its best to work through your differences and remain a family, as opposed to divorce.

Guess I'm the guy getting dumped eh?

My son cries for his mother every night with me and cries for me when she is with him. My soon to be ex cries every time she has to leave him as well. I cry because I don't want any of this and see no logical reason to do it (as I am still madly in love with her). She loses half her child, it DOES put them at higher risk statistically speaking, and she may or may not be happier when this is all said and done.

I simply don't understand the risk vs reward in divorce. Although I am slowly accepting that its happening.

All I can say is that if he wants to be together, and work things out, you want to there for your children for the next couple of year, what's the harm in trying? You might just fall back in love with him. It can't get worse can it? If got this bad again you ALWAYS have the option of leaving. You don't always have the option of coming back.

My thoughts. You are a good Mom. Your kids know that.
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-02-2013, 10:52 AM
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Because my wife was unhappy for a short time (in my eyes it was about 8-12 months), she feels its the right course of action.
Freeryder...you said you tried marriage counselling? Did your wife open up during that time about what things she thought were deal-breakers for your marriage?

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But it's hearsay to know how they would be doing if they had remained a family.
In my own marriage, we weren't much of a family and I know what would have happened had I stayed married...more of the same. But you are right for some circumstances.

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Guess I'm the guy getting dumped eh?
I'm truly sorry Freeryder. I'm sorry you're having such a tough time.

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My son cries for his mother every night with me and cries for me when she is with him. My soon to be ex cries every time she has to leave him as well. I cry because I don't want any of this and see no logical reason to do it (as I am still madly in love with her). She loses half her child, it DOES put them at higher risk statistically speaking, and she may or may not be happier when this is all said and done.
If you do end up getting divorced...have faith. Your child can make it through this fairly unscathed if you're both stepping up the plate and working on the after-divorce parental behaviors together. Just because you're getting divorced doesn't mean you can't remain cordial (maybe even friendly) and work together in the best needs of your child. Hang in there.
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