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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 12:51 AM
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I am not sure why depression of mom is relevant unless one believes it is causing D3 harm. If OCL believes D3 is being affected by mom's depression, D3 needs the saving, not mom. I do not recall you saying a call was placed by OCL to CAS concerning mom's mental health and its possible affect on D3....

IMO depression issue is another red herring.

If mom has a documented history of depression that precedes LF, she has a documented history of depression that precedes LF. Period.

What causes depression IMO is irrelevant to this matter insofar as the depression is not negatively affecting child. If it is, who cares what has triggered it or where it is coming or any other speculation, so long as D3 is safe.

Mom can get help for depression. Her mental health state IMO has no place in courtroom unless it affects her ability to parent.

If the claim is a way to position for sole custody (LF caused), I say prove it when you have a documented history of depression.

Last edited by odinn; 10-03-2014 at 12:54 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-03-2014, 12:57 AM
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Well Odinn, the ex is claiming that years of abuse from LF33 has made her depressed and now it's affecting her daughter, and OCL is lapping it up. Sounds like adressing the the pre-existing nature of the depression is a pretty good idea.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 01:04 AM
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I cannot believe the twists that this has taken.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odinn View Post
Mom can get help for depression. Her mental health state IMO has no place in courtroom unless it affects her ability to parent.
To further clarify, it is possible that there are instances where mental health of a parent is relevant in the courtroom when it affects ability to parent or co-parent. IMO this is not one of those instances.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 06:59 AM
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Odinn:

The child is reportedly comforting, coddling the mother when she cries. Asking why she's sad. Being the parent. It becomes abnormal when its daily and affecting your daily life. This is not healthy for a 3 year old. IMO it is affecting her ability to parent markedly.

Furthermore .. OCL won't call CAS on mother OCL is basically her friend. You would have to be in my situation to understand.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 10-03-2014 at 07:02 AM.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
Odinn:

The child is reportedly comforting, coddling the mother when she cries. Asking why she's sad. Being the parent. It becomes abnormal when its daily and affecting your daily life. This is not healthy for a 3 year old. IMO it is affecting her ability to parent markedly.

Furthermore .. OCL won't call CAS on mother OCL is basically her friend. You would have to be in my situation to understand.
I admit this is disturbing. But you have to look at it from the perspective of the judge. You have no first hand knowledge of this and you are biased. Children comforting a parent in and of itself is not unusual, I'm sure your child tried to comfort you when you cried upon seeing her. To assess this as affecting her parenting, you would need to observe it first hand and over the course of time.

If you want to prove her depression is impacting her ability to parent, you have to look at it the way the judge will. Is depression stopping your ex from providing the necessities of life for your daughter? Can she feed, clothe, bath the child? is she competent to keep her safe? Can she maintain a place for your daughter to live in reasonable shape? Can she earn a living?

There is what you know and what you can prove, and it court, it is what you can prove. Many people with depression manage it. Some have even won gold medals at the Olympics. Depression may be impacting her parenting, but if you make that allegation, the burden of proof is on you. If you make the allegation and fail to prove it to the judge's satisfaction, it will be evidence that you are unable to co-operate with the other parent.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 10:04 AM
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I don't think Odinn wants to accept that you might actually be a nice guy, and your ex might actually be a mentally ill, vindictive person that is trying to cut you out of your daughter's life, and even replace you with that 'second daddy' that D3 was talking about that one time.

What it really comes down to are two camps: One that believes your side of the story, and the other that doesn't. Me, I've been following this story since April, and you've been unwaveringly consistent across thousands of posts. I know your case inside and out, and that's partly because I have been blessed with an excellent memory. I haven't 'caught you in a lie' yet. Ultimately, I have to use that information to make a leap of faith and trust what you are saying, and then give you words of advice based upon that. There are others who are taking what you are saying on faith as well, and sometimes they give you advice that you don't want to hear, but they're at least still giving you the benefit of the doubt.

There is another group that keeps popping up, and they are either incapable of remembering all of the details of all of the moving parts, or they can't just bring themselves to accept that there are terrible people in this world that do terrible things to people who don't actually deserve it. Since they cannot believe that some of these things could ever happen, they end up getting trapped questioning the facts as presented, instead of analyzing them.

Some people keep on saying that the mental health of your ex is not relevant, even though you (and I) have reminded them a number of times that it is your ex that has injected the mental health component into this by blaming her depression on you, crying in front of your daughter, and using that to manipulate your daughter into comforting her, and thus currying favor with a sympathetic OCL. So, t is the ex who has made it the issue (whereas you correctly pointed out that you originally decided to keep the mental illness out of the equation at the very beginning of the process). Honestly, if I was crying in front of my kids all of the time and demanding that they coddle and comfort me, I would be getting myself to therapy, stat. Also, no one would find that normal, and would have serious questions about the impact that kind of behaviour is having on our children. We're supposed to be their rocks. They can see us cry and be upset when a loved on dies, because that is normal, but losing our shit in front of them on a regular basis has the potential to ruin them for life.

It is immensely disturbing that the OCL would see this behaviour, assume you were the cause, enable her by automatically recommending more victims counselling without getting an assessment for all of the likely causes through a proper psychological assessment, and then treat it as an opportunity to further deny you access. If I were in your place I would have spontaneously com-busted by now. Her mental illness wasn't an issue eight months ago, and not even one month ago, but I can pretty much guarantee it is now.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 10:16 AM
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I have two views on the mental illness as a potential factor in LF32's case.

1) Judge may very well order an indepth psychoanalysis of the family. This can be a good thing. Only negative thing is that it is costly.

2) Mother will use the 'depression card' as a tool to, yet again, stall the matter of access.

I like to think that the judge will have been around-the-block a few times in life and will quickly surmise that the mother is simply trying to manipulate status quotient as it relates to determination of child custody.

All in all I think the other side is stalling, trying to deflect the mother's initial act of abducting the child and now the oh-so-apparent beginnings of child alienation.

This will be a very interesting case if it ever gets to court.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arabian View Post
I have two views on the mental illness as a potential factor in LF32's case.

1) Judge may very well order an indepth psychoanalysis of the family. This can be a good thing. Only negative thing is that it is costly.

2) Mother will use the 'depression card' as a tool to, yet again, stall the matter of access.

I like to think that the judge will have been around-the-block a few times in life and will quickly surmise that the mother is simply trying to manipulate status quotient as it relates to determination of child custody.

All in all I think the other side is stalling, trying to deflect the mother's initial act of abducting the child and now the oh-so-apparent beginnings of child alienation.

This will be a very interesting case if it ever gets to court.
Any competent lawyer would have a very severe talk with a client who suggested that they use the depression excuse in court. It may have worked with an already sympathetic and biased OCL. But a judge will not accept a) that a third party "causes" depression or b) that depression is a reason to deny access to the other parent. In fact if she makes too big a deal of it, it sounds manipulative and scheming to a judge and could very well backfire. So I wouldn't be suprised if this was a red herring that was used to get a favourable OC report, and/or delay the OCL report.

I'm not saying not to prepare strategies if she does raise it in court, but it would be a very stupid thing for her to do - the chance of success is slim, and it could hurt her case.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2014, 10:29 AM
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This is what's happening,

LF32 and Ms. LF32 argued so much that Ms. LF32 is stronlgy affected by it, needs ongoing counseling. The child is affected as well .. to the extent that she needs to parent the parent. Don't get me wrong. I know it's actually healthy for a child to see thier child cry (once in a while) IF the parent describes WHy they are crying.

Abnormal psychology 101 teaches that anything that affects your functioning in daily life. WHen I was with ex during her depressive episodes she hoarded, left dishes all day and stayed in her PJ's, there was cat/dog feces on the rug when I got home, etc. Differece is I was always there to clean it up and get D3 out to the park for some air when I arrived home from work.

Now Im forced to just "hope" D3's doing okay while she comforts and coddles her mother daily while she cries.

Let's not forget .. OCL is using her depression against me (like Strait said). LF32 caused it, which is afecting D3 as well.

If ex were to have an psychosocial assessment it would be uncovered.

OCL says D3 is "cowering" when adults rasie their voices around her. Should I be concerend? Who's yelling in front of my 3 year old daughter to the point she's cowering? I've never seen D3 cower in her life.
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