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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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Old 03-05-2012, 07:11 PM
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Default The fun continues.....

Admittedly my work schedule isn't great and fine, leaving the house rather than arguing with the X was apparently not smart (I disagree) however, if I tally up the totals the X want's....a 400 K house free and clear, 40 K for my pension, and 2.2 K for the next 13 yrs in CS-= grand total 783,200 dollars which over 13 yrs averages out to a little over 60 K per year.

She has agreed to let me see the kids 4 out of 60 days (work screws things here) it will cost me 2500 dollars a day to see my children.

Now admittedly I haven't agreed to this and will fight tooth and nail, but at what point do I acquiesce for the sake of the kids??
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:14 PM
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You don't acquiesce. You do your research, find out what a fair offer is, and make it. Suggest mediation. And deal with each issue separately. After all, you are not exchanging money for time with children, no matter how she makes you feel.

Why does she want the house free and clear? What equivalent asset is she suggesting you keep in exchange? Figure out what fair equalization is in your case. Offer that. You each get half the portion of the other's pension that was earned over the course of the marriage, etc.

Also, you can't think of it as paying to see your children. That way lies bitterness. Think of it as financially contributing to their lives, regardless of how much or how little you see them.

You're the guy who works away from town for a month, then has a month off? What a weird job! It makes it extremely difficult to have shared custody. What do other people with your job do if they are single parents? Maybe ask your coworkers for advice?

Look up your income in the child support tables, and figure out how much the law says you must pay. Pay it, starting right now, but don't pay anything else. I take it the 4 days out of 60 she is suggesting means alternate weekends for the month you are home? She doesn't get to 'let' you see the kids unless you let her.

If you can't change jobs to something that works better, figure out a way to negotiate as much custody during your months home as you can. You started with month on and month off, and she didn't go for it? You'll need to address whatever her concerns are. Offer her alternating weekends during your month at home and let her negotiate you down to week on week off during your month, and arrange time off to have a weekend visit during her month.

This is just basically the nature of negotiation. Ask for everything outrageous, and settle for something realistic. Let the other side think they've won by talking you down from the original crazy demands. Done right, you end up with something more or less fair. And if she won't budge, then you end up in court, with a history of fair offers being rejected, and who looks unreasonable to the judge?

Meanwhile, be a dad as much as you can within the confines of your weird job. Visit their school, volunteer, do lunch with them, during the month you are at home. Attend their activities. Establish that you are an involved parent and that she is not a gatekeeper to the children.

Good luck!
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:17 PM
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Its time we all took a stand against all the BS.... let me know where I can help.
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Old 03-05-2012, 09:44 PM
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Rioe,

Quote:
Why does she want the house free and clear? What equivalent asset is she suggesting you keep in exchange? Figure out what fair equalization is in your case. Offer that. You each get half the portion of the other's pension that was earned over the course of the marriage
I believe her argument will lie somewhere along the lines of this is the home the kids are used to, and I left ergo tacit loss of marital home and parental rights.

Quote:
Look up your income in the child support tables, and figure out how much the law says you must pay. Pay it, starting right now, but don't pay anything else. I take it the 4 days out of 60 she is suggesting means alternate weekends for the month you are home? She doesn't get to 'let' you see the kids unless you let her.
I did look it up, and here's where it gets fun. because shes playing gate keeper with the kids Prime example being the kids spring break (she would rather pay daycare and have one of the children miss a sporting event than have them spend the time with me) yes I can take them to the event. So to finish it, she plays gate keeper which ensures that she can request the amount of CS. What option do I have? take them and keep them? obvious issues there.

Quote:
If you can't change jobs to something that works better, figure out a way to negotiate as much custody during your months home as you can. You started with month on and month off, and she didn't go for it?
I could possibly change to two weeks on two off, again she rejected it. Now another option is to quit a federal job and go sling beer or something. It would allow me to see them more, but pretty sure there's issues with that.

Anyway, I appreciate the help I really do, I'm frustrated, angry that things are so stupid.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:13 PM
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Ok...first let me say I do understand where you are coming from and the frustration you are feeling over all of this mess. I get it...family law sucks and if one person wants to be an ass or "gatekeeper" then no one wins...especially not the children.

Now...

1. You moved out...you never did say exactly when...or if you did I missed it. So how long have you been living away from the matrimonial home?

2. When did you ex begin to "dictate" when you could, or could not see your children? Did you begin to document it immediately? Do you have texts or emails proving her denial of access to you? How far back? Does it show a consistent pattern?

3. For heaven's sake...if you can move your work to 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off...do it!!!! Do not pass go...do not wait for it to be too late...just do it and then begin advising your ex that your access will be 50/50.

4. For access...do not "ask" for 50/50. Ask her to document to you what she feels fair and reasonable access for you should be. Then...once you have her written document...turn around and offer it to her. From there state that access will be 50/50 as you are now only away 2 weeks at a time. ...and really...in the back of you mind...know that you are probably only going to be successful at 40/60....but that will work up to 50/50 as the children get older...because believe me...your children are absorbing everything.

5. Read everything you can in these forums...take notes...and more notes...then begin to interview lawyers that with work "with you" rather than always doing what they've always done.

I will also say that you need to have some clear boundaries defined when it comes to dealing with your ex...as to what you will and will not accept from her. You are being pushed around...and she will continue to push until you "just give in"...because that is what you taught her to do so she gets what she wants. Time to change your behaviour before you find yourself a "visitor" in your children's lives.

That's all I have for tonight folks...
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:36 PM
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It doesn't matter if you moved out. The matrimonial home is a 50/50 asset, she can say what she wants, argue till the cows come home, it is half your asset.

She will have to take out a mortgage and pay you your share. The support you pay will then go to pay the mortgage. Don't get frustrated by that, just roll with it. However don't just give her the house.

Access to your children has NOTHING to do with paying support. Your children have a RIGHT to have a father, they have a right to have access to you. Separate those two subjects permanently in your mind, access and support.

You can try for 50/50 if you get your work schedule changed, but if your ex wants to fight it, you have have all your ducks lined up properly to get what you want. Don't do it for money, do it for the sake of being a parent.

Any and all assets accumulated during the marriage are split 50/50, minus any debt accumulated during the marriage. Don't give away your money. Have the amount calculated properly.
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Old 03-05-2012, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gettingtakenforaride View Post
I believe her argument will lie somewhere along the lines of this is the home the kids are used to, and I left ergo tacit loss of marital home and parental rights.
Haha, she's really got her own version of reality, doesn't she? You have just as much right to the home as she does, even if you left. You left her, not your kids or your property. If she wants to keep the house, she has to buy you out of your half. There's a ton of legal stuff on the matrimonial home; she doesn't stand a chance in court.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gettingtakenforaride View Post
I did look it up, and here's where it gets fun. because shes playing gate keeper with the kids Prime example being the kids spring break (she would rather pay daycare and have one of the children miss a sporting event than have them spend the time with me) yes I can take them to the event. So to finish it, she plays gate keeper which ensures that she can request the amount of CS. What option do I have? take them and keep them? obvious issues there.
So you think she's motivated by the CS? What is her income? Calculate the offset amount, and pay her only that, as you are intending that the custody should be 50-50. Then, if she wants more, she has to make a non-50-50 offer you'll actually accept, or take you to court.

As for spring break, go to the daycare and take your kids to spend time with them. Take them to the event. Parents can do that. Bring them back to the daycare before pickup if you don't want to see her for an exchange, and to show that you aren't "keeping" them.

And definitely get a Right of First Refusal clause in your separation agreement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gettingtakenforaride View Post
I could possibly change to two weeks on two off, again she rejected it.
She doesn't get to reject it, if that's what you want to do. Make the job change, and tell her that the custody will be two weeks turnaround. Offer her a mid-access visit during your time if you need to sweeten the deal. Obviously there won't be a mid-access visit for you during her time, but as long as the ratio doesn't slip past 40-60, shared will prevail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gettingtakenforaride View Post
Now another option is to quit a federal job and go sling beer or something. It would allow me to see them more, but pretty sure there's issues with that.
Still a good last resort, if she forces your hand. It shows that the time with your children is more important to you than money, and that looks good in court, while her greed for CS does not.

I think you need to do some thinking about her motivation. Is it all about the money? Is it about punishing you for ending the relationship? Does she have concerns about your parenting? A new relationship? Once you know what's driving her so badly, you can figure out how to negotiate/manipulate better.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:24 AM
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Agree with the other posters, and I believe I raised the point before...if push comes to shove, who wins? Your job or your kids?

If you can do 2 weeks about, then go for it. Anything is better than that month on month off thing. 2 weeks might be a tough sell, depending on the age of the kids, but 1. They are already used to it and 2. It's not a totally unrealistic amount of time. Worse case you might wind up with 1 solid week in 4, as well as the weekend on the other week, depending on how the "2 weeks" falls into the scheme of things. 10 days in 30 is a LOT better than you are getting now, AND if you can swing a week at Xmas, half the march break and 4 weeks during the summer...it MIGHT be enough to push you over the 40% threshold into offset territory.

That MIGHT be something you can work with, certainly bears investigating. Get the ex to sign off on a custody agreement FIRST, THEN address the support/asset equalization.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:57 AM
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Please take the advice of the posters here, it is invaluable to you at this point. You have nothing in writing, so you have a clean slate.

Make sure you get everything you want in writing, because you don't want to have to ask for more after the fact, it's an uphill battle at that point.

Good luck, ask more questions, and hang in there! Keep us posted!
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