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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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Old 04-19-2011, 08:22 PM
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Default Frustrated with a liar

My 15yr old is living with his father. We have joint custody, my son stays with me EOW and I am allowed 1 midweek visit each week as per my sons "reasonable wishes" (My daughter lives with me and in turn sees the x EOW)
The midweek doesn't happen much because at 15 he'd rather be at his girl friends house with her, which I get.
A couple of weeks ago I asked my son if he would like to go to the movies with his sister and I the next night. He said sure. He told his dad and his dad flipped out saying that I have to give him multiple days written notice to have any access to him during the week and that he would let him go this time, but in the future I am not supposed to even ask my son if he wants to go with me until AFTER I get permission from the X.
Am I wrong in believing that at 15 my son is quite capable of deciding if he would like to spend time with me and asking his dad if its ok? I'm trying to avoid emailing/speaking to his father as much as possible as his response usually contains some sort of verbal abuse to me.
My lawyer advised me that I don't have to ask the x's permission, just my sons. His lawyer has advised him to not allow me any access that I didn't ask for in writing.
On top of all that my x changed my sons doctor of 14yrs without my permission and then refused to give me the doctors contact info. So I contact my lawyer, she contacts his lawyer, X tells his lawyer that my sons doctor is retiring so he had to get new one (this is false) and says he never refused me (I asked him twice in emails and got told it was none of my business). He also told his lawyer that I have been harrasing my son to come and move back in with me, which I have not. My x is a constant liar and it is sooo frustrating.
His lawyer also got a copy of the email my x sent me calling me an idiot and a stupid bitch and saying his was going to make my access to my son very difficult if I didn't get off my high horse. His lawyer justifies this by saying his client is very frustrated because I don't feel like I need his permission to see my son. That makes it ok?
I guess my question is how do I handle situations like these? Do I just be the good little girl and do whatever my X wants and allow him to continue to control me, when does the abuse stop?
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink View Post
I guess my question is how do I handle situations like these? Do I just be the good little girl and do whatever my X wants and allow him to continue to control me, when does the abuse stop?
I would think your son is old enough to agree to a movie with his Mom.
Not like you were gonna keep him, were you?

But yes, I think unless you want to incur some legal bills over a relatively minor thing, and it's not something the court can stop anyway (your ex being an ass, that is)...
Yes, I think you just bite your lip and move on.
Really - I've never heard of someone suddenly "seeing the light" and becoming a better person about these sort of things. No matter how much they are told they're being an ass.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:27 PM
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Since your order says 'as per my sons "reasonable wishes"', I'd take that to mean that your SON is expressly given power to decide on these visits. My only cautions would be
- not exceeding the general 1-weekday allotment on average
- think about how you would do it if you were a close auntie inviting you son out for the evening. IF he is responsible about schoolwork, then he can be trusted to make the judgement on whether he needs to stay home and work instead. If not, then you'd want to work with Dad to ensure the homework is getting done (or your invitation can involve bringing the work to your place, where maybe you can help if needed). Giving a day's notice of your intentions (but not asking permission) would be polite, to give Dad a chance to say if there was something planned (yes, I know he can abuse this).

Last edited by dinkyface; 04-19-2011 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:54 AM
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Sad to see this kind of thing, but I know it is rampant.

If it were anyone else such as a friend making plans like that with a 15 year old school-mate it wouldn't be given a second thought. Friend would phone, say "Lets go to a movie" and they'd go.

When it's "THE EX" there has to be a formal written request, and that's partly the court's fault, although from reading it does sound like it is at the son's discretion. I'd question the "one weekday per week" rule though... Again, if it were any other friend would there be a limit to one weekday per week? No.

Point this out to your ex that get-togethers like this are at your son's discretion and then follow the order. Plan things as you would with any normal person and ask if he'd like to go. He can then ask his father, as he would with any other outing and his dad can let him go or deny it. At 15 kids have a VERY strong (usually too strong) sense of their own rights and unless dad has good reasons (homework not done, etc...) the son will see through the controlling behavior.

YOU have a very important role here as well... DO NOT LET HIM PLAY MOM AGAINST DAD even if that respect doesn't go both ways. If dad has a good reason to deny an event then you have to reinforce that if it's the right thing to do.

DD
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Deputy Daddy View Post
Sad to see this kind of thing, but I know it is rampant.

Point this out to your ex that get-togethers like this are at your son's discretion and then follow the order. Plan things as you would with any normal person and ask if he'd like to go. He can then ask his father, as he would with any other outing and his dad can let him go or deny it. At 15 kids have a VERY strong (usually too strong) sense of their own rights and unless dad has good reasons (homework not done, etc...) the son will see through the controlling behavior.


DD
I have done this and he just pulls his power trip and says he lives with him and I need his permission.. It's complete b.s. and with his lawyer telling him not to allow me access unless I ask in writing for permission first is just adding fuel to his fire.

My x isn't even home after school he works 3-12pm, so it's not like I'm interfering with any of his plans.
It's ridiculous. Let my son and I have a relationship and get on with your life already.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:02 AM
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I wouldn't see any harm in letting him know your intentions a head of time in order to ensure that he doesn't have anything planned for your son that day as well. If nothing else, it would hopefully eliminate scheduling conflicts.

What if dad had an event planned for that day also? Would you make your son choose between going out mom or dad?

Giving a couple days notice is courtesy, which I am sure you would expect the same. While it may not be required by the court order, it can't hurt.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink View Post
...His lawyer has advised him to not allow me any access that I didn't ask for in writing....
Adversarial system that uses lawyers - this is what is wrong with family law, plain and simple.

Whenever my ex says 'Well, my lawyer told me blah blah blah', I shake my head at the insanity of it all....surely we should be smart enough to recognize that the adversarial lawyer based method, where lawyers make money from conflict as opposed to harmony, is seriously flawed.

People who pay someone $300/hour+ to cause them and their former spouse grief have serious issues imho.

Last edited by billm; 04-20-2011 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HammerDad View Post

What if dad had an event planned for that day also? Would you make your son choose between going out mom or dad?

Giving a couple days notice is courtesy, which I am sure you would expect the same. While it may not be required by the court order, it can't hurt.
When I asked my son if he wanted to go to the movies with us (for example) I said, would you like to come with us, he said sure, I said, ok make sure its ok with your dad.
So to answer your question, no I would not make him choose between us.
That being said its pretty hard for his dad to have anything planned when he is at work during those hours.

Giving a couple days notice is courtesy sure, but sometimes we like to be spontaneous. Whats wrong with calling my son and saying, do you want to go to the movies with us tonight, or do u want to go out for dinner with us?
Like a previous poster said...if one of his buddies called up and asked my son to come over and hang out, I'm sure he wouldn't be required to give multiple days written notice.

As for me requiring the same courtesy, my x has never asked my permission to take my daughter for additional time. He always asks her first and she asks me if its ok. The exact same thing that I'm trying to do with my son.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:57 AM
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Our Judge told my ex at each CC that as our guys are getting older hanging with their parents isn't going to be that important to them anymore and he needed to be more flexible when the time comes and they want to go to a friends place rather then visit with him. Well, the time has come and they told him they don't want to go there at the end of the month as one of their best friends is in town for the weekend and they haven't seen him in 3 years. He was mad, but they stuck to their guns. A few months ago I would have worried that he could use this as ammunition to try to get kids again. Now that I actually their rights as well as my own I am not so scared of every little thing.
Your son should be able to go to a movie if he wants withut all the drama.
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Old 04-20-2011, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pink View Post
...I am allowed 1 midweek visit each week as per my sons "reasonable wishes"
My husband's separation agreement had the same wording for his 11 year old daughter. Mom said it means "when daughter comes to visit she gets to decide what to do during the visit".

lol
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