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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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Old 09-20-2010, 08:06 PM
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Default Does justice exist??

So, we tried mediation in Jan. I thought they would help me with abuse concerns. Wrong. They are not there for opinions just to help us talk. Well it seems some people are really good at faking it. The best I could get, for a full time stay at home Mom was four days/week w/ me and 3 days w/ him and shared decision making. That ended in Mar w/ a promise he would stop being difficult and be reasonable. Didn't last long. Communication dwindled to whatever our 4 & 6 year olds would tell me.
The last time my ex sexually assaulted me, in the same bed as our children, last year, he warned me not to make an issue out of it or I would lose my children and his family would support him. Taking his threat to heart I remained quiet about it until mediation, which didn't help as they must remain neutral, unless their is proof of child abuse.
So we move to mid July. I had a meeting w/ my ex to go over a trip agreement for summer holiday and I mentioned some of my concerns regarding inappropriate nudity around the children... I also made reference to the abuse I suffered. BIG oops. 3 days later he dropped the boys off for our vacation. Something weird in the air. He brought a friend to witness signing the trip agreement he never intended to sign and enticed me into an argument. I did raise my voice, but never swore or called him a name or physically assaulted him.
A week into the trip I received an email alluding to my verbal and physical assault against him before I left?! I responded with I have no idea what you are talking about.
We return home 2 weeks later. I put the kids to sleep and answer a phone call at 10 pm from the police. They had a report of a domestic assault, they are going to come take me into custody overnight and I will see a judge in the am. What the #**k! Hard crash!!! My current partner tells them this is crazy she was there it did not happen. Well they have my ex and his buddy so they will let the judge figure it out. My ex's parent's will p/u the kids, after I wake them and then they can watch me be taken away in cuffs!
11pm 3 cops show up. I make a deal w/ arresting cop to let my sister come stay w/ kids until I return, to lessen their trauma. (they have never seen anything like this before). Cuffed, charged, no questions, cold slab, fingerprints, judged and released 12hrs later. Home to my kids... NOPE! Seems the plan was changed in my absence. Even w/out any legal custody or access papers. My ex kept them for 2 wks. And only returned them due to lawyer's involvement. So now I pay 3500, he pays 0. Best case, they can't prove I did it. Done. Life goes on. Justice??? Oh yeah lawyer says that doesn't really exist.
Now what? Months of custody battles, a criminal trial, tons of stress, and a life negotiating w/ a narcissistic sociopath. What is one to do? Do I risk telling the police about the actual assaults I suffered? Will that bring me closure or accountability or just more fear of what his retaliation will be? And until the never ending custody battle is over we get to make decisions together. Great. I am afraid to be near him and he is avoiding anyone he has to look in the eyes.
Any words of wisdom appreciated.
MM
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:57 PM
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I think justice exists but it does not come free on this earth. If you want cheap justice, you will have to wait until you kick the bucket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mumma mudfoot View Post
The last time my ex sexually assaulted me, in the same bed as our children, last year, he warned me not to make an issue out of it or I would lose my children and his family would support him.
What did he actually do? I will assume that he wanted to have sex with his wife and you refused but apart from that I am not so quick to accept that he assaulted you.

I am actually quite curious because recently my wife told me that she feels violated when I gaze at her hot body with desire.

Accusing a man of sexually assaulting his own wife in the marital bed can be debatable unless you tell us specifically what was done. Please note that my wife and I co-slept both of our kids in one huge communal bed. Having sex with a sleeping child beside us happened -- although not often enough, in my opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mumma mudfoot View Post
Do I risk telling the police about the actual assaults I suffered?
I am not one to trust the police or the justice system for anything but go ahead. Even if you never submit them to the police, writing down your experiences can help you get peace of mind.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnarX View Post
What did he actually do? I will assume that he wanted to have sex with his wife and you refused but apart from that I am not so quick to accept that he assaulted you.

I am actually quite curious because recently my wife told me that she feels violated when I gaze at her hot body with desire.

Accusing a man of sexually assaulting his own wife in the marital bed can be debatable unless you tell us specifically what was done. Please note that my wife and I co-slept both of our kids in one huge communal bed. Having sex with a sleeping child beside us happened -- although not often enough, in my opinion.
You're going to get ripped for one or more of those comments. Be careful, making jokes about having sex beside a child might be funny to you, but some folks will get all bent out of shape hearing it. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, just that you're on thin ice where some folks are concerned.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadtotheend View Post
Be careful, making jokes about having sex beside a child might be funny to you, but some folks will get all bent out of shape hearing it. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, just that you're on thin ice where some folks are concerned.
refrain, refrain, refrain from commenting. It's working....
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadtotheend View Post
You're going to get ripped for one or more of those comments. Be careful, making jokes about having sex beside a child might be funny to you, but some folks will get all bent out of shape hearing it. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, just that you're on thin ice where some folks are concerned.
Sorry, but I didn't get a "joke" out of any of that...

I think he was quite serious about having sex with his wife, with the kids in bed beside them... (which is none of my business).

But, judging by the "tone" of his post... he seems to imply that he thinks a man can have sex with his wife whenever he wants... whether she wants to or not is of no consequence.

Maybe I was reading too much into it... I certainly hope so.
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnarX View Post
I think justice exists but it does not come free on this earth. If you want cheap justice, you will have to wait until you kick the bucket.

What did he actually do? I will assume that he wanted to have sex with his wife and you refused but apart from that I am not so quick to accept that he assaulted you.

I am actually quite curious because recently my wife told me that she feels violated when I gaze at her hot body with desire.

Accusing a man of sexually assaulting his own wife in the marital bed can be debatable unless you tell us specifically what was done. Please note that my wife and I co-slept both of our kids in one huge communal bed. Having sex with a sleeping child beside us happened -- although not often enough, in my opinion.


I am not one to trust the police or the justice system for anything but go ahead. Even if you never submit them to the police, writing down your experiences can help you get peace of mind.
This is disgusting, nobody needs or wants to hear the details of what happened nor do they need to be provided. Married or not, marital bed or not, everything and anything that doesn't stop at the word NO is assault.

I'll ignore the comment about your wife and, but I hope to hell you respect what she tells you.

Last edited by blinkandimgone; 09-20-2010 at 11:39 PM. Reason: the voices told me to...
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:25 AM
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I agree that no means no, but calling it assault may be a bit of a stretch unless there are more details. And no I don't want to know more details. But I am skeptical of the assault label.

Your story is typical of how our system is used to manipulate the various agencies to get the upper hand in court. See it works. You are one of the few women who have suffered this kind of abuse of process. You are lucky you got the kids back so fast. It took me over 6 month to get any access and 3 court orders, and the legal issues have not gone away after 7 years. Yours does not need to be like this. But you need to do a few things to protect yourself and know how to defend against this.

My best advise is to cut any contact with him unless it is witnessed. Any communication should be strictly by email, and limited to discussion about the children. Do not engage in anything else. He has shown his hand, and you don't need to give him opportunity to do this again.

Do you have any court applications over the arrest? If so, do not agree to a peace bond just to get ride of the charge. The benefit of criminal court is the burden of proof is much greater than family court. Family court requires no evidence. Criminal court requires a standard of probability. Depending on the accusation, you should be able to defend against it easily. Even with a witness on his side, unless there is a record from the police confirming they saw wounds, backed up by a doctor or hospital report, then it really is nothing more than he said she said.

How long after the suposed assault until the police came by? Was it several weeks?

Have you received the disclosure from the crown? I would demand to see this as soon as possible.

Unfortunately this charge will be used as long as possible in family court to prove you are unfit and violent. Not much will take place until the criminal issues are resolved.

Do you have a lawyer? For which issues? What does your lawyer say?

A similar thing happened to a woman who came to our group last week. She was in a real mess emotionally. I talked with her for a long time, and she was relieved when I was able to tell her everything about how the whole process transpired without her telling me her story. All this stuff happens everyday to parents going through divorce. But you do have a much better chance than most men facing similar situations, and you can take solace in that.

If you have not started already, start a journal. It is best to use a hard bound book. Don't use a coil binder or book. Mark down all access you have with the kids. Mark down any phone calls you or the ex has with the kids. Document anything you think is important. Keep different journals if you think it would be easier to separate the various kinds of information. You need to protect yourself, and you need to keep calm.
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:48 AM
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do not expect the mediators to be your therapist. They are there to help you guys reach agreements, not for you to rehash everything he did to you that you did not report to the police.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:46 AM
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AnarX-You are an idiot

Mumma Mudfoot-I would report the abuse.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:54 AM
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Words of advice then.

There is a big difference between one incident and an ongoing pattern of abuse and assault. If you have evidence of the latter, and perhaps you do, then you should seek therapy. That said, abuse has nothing legally to do with divorce, it has nothing to do with support or equalization, it has nothing to do with custody unless it can be shown how it directly affects the children. His behaviour, personality and emotions will be much different now that he is not living with you, just as yours are now that you are not living with him.

We all feel that our ex's are narcissistic sociopaths. Perhaps yours is, but unless you have factual proof you can provide in court you will not get any use out of your diagnosis.

Your ex has equal custody of the children with you. He has as much right, at this moment and until an order or agreement makes it otherwise, to have the children with him and make decisions about their welfare. You have to either respect this, like it or not, or show factually why it should not be so.

From your version of the incident, your ex set you up for the arrest. This would be a terrible experience. You threatened him with charges of assault and abuse. There is conflict going both ways here. I am not saying his behaviour was right, it was not. But you are part of this conflict, not a passive recepticle.

You are both still caught up in a toxic emotional relationship with each other, and until you are both able to let go of it the children and your new partners will suffer for it, and your custody situation will be a legal nightmare. Mediation was not a solution for you, however it can be a good idea to go through the motions at least to show the courts you tried.

You need to separate your conflict with your ex from his relationship with the children, and from your relationship with the children. This is hard, I know, I have been there, but you have to. You and your ex are divorcing for a reason. That reason does not include the children, they will not be divorcing their parents. For their benefit you must learn to separate their issues from the issues between you and your ex.
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