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Divorce Support This forum is for discussing the emotional aspects of divorce: stress, anger, betrayal of trust and more.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 01:17 AM
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Dear Judepude,
Did you actually have a lawyer look at it
After you signed it (ILA) 17 years ago ?
I had a prenuptial agreement for my marriage
Because I came into some money and I bought
The house we lived in. My ex was never on
Title nor paid one cent to purchase of home.
He DID get ILA , "but" 13 years later when we
Were seperating, it was noticed that only a lawyers
Signature was on it with no name under it!!
My lawyer never caught this either, back then.
So my ex lied in court and said he did "not"
Receive legal advice . He hired a civil litigation
Lawyer and because laws change during that time etc
It really didn't stand as it should have in my opinion.
I had to pay him out a small portion but even at
That.. It almost put me and my 2 children on the street .
So, my point is , depending on your lawyer, the judge
And your lucky stars anything can happen. There does
Not seem to be much of any "iron clad" in anything
Anymore. Our legal system is awful.
I dont know either, how you can prove that
He "made" you quit working?? In most average
Cases there is no business. Just the split of a home.
You may "try" for a portion of pension or
Spousal ? .. Because you now are moving into retirement
Years.. ? I'm sorry you are going through this
, I wish you much luck. Just find a lawyer
That is motivated and a go getter.
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 01:41 AM
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I do beleive in keeping your word as well. I have also come to understand the importance of understanding the true implication of waiving the right to get legal council. I can't quote articles or case files but I have read to many times now that it is stuck in my head....

I agree with suncoast, at least to the point of a poster posted to get an understanding of her situatioin, there will be time between "today" and when she will ultimately be able to sit with a lawyer who will give it to her straight. In the meantime instead of citing your morals why not instead make the effort to guide this person to research her own, her possible fate, in the meantime? This has been done in the other posts, some excellent posts so I will not repeat.

If it is a colourfull story you are interested in, is closer to what I have read time and time again and morals or none, the following paragraphs do actually make a point. If lawyers were not allowed to make money off of the type of document in question here, unless the other party did indeed get proper legal advice I strongly believe we would not need to worry about anyone's morals, or why they should honour or how could they be so foolish to waive anything they probably didn't understand in the first place. So if you look for intertainment - read on, if not that is ok too because for a few minutes tonight I actually had a chance to forget some of my problems if only briefly........

Manipulation of an individual under the stress of a quickly upcoming marriage, the stress, people tugging the bride from every direction. Sorry but not one recollection has been of gender reversal, not to say it has never happened because I would bet on it but to the point: For all the uphold your agreement voters: Why did hubby to-be not prep this document and present it with his proposal of marriage? Why is it so very common to hear of this issue hand in hand with "the night before, the week before, waive your right to legal (now why would any manipulative hubby to be ask this of his bride to be???)

Continue with - It happened for what ever reason but why has one of these last minute deciepts ever came with a 12 month clause that states you (usually the bride) have this time to read and understand this document when the dust settles and as a trusting new husband allow a clause to give the new bride the right to make any modification to said document and without question, and with full trust, any and all modifications will be accepted and become part of the final aggreement?

Outrageous I am certain - this is why judges have been known to regularly toss these firesale grossly onesided non-agreements in the trash bin. Without legal advice, my understanding is an agreement that is so one sided and biased to the orginator/author of what is just short of unconciousable, in my humble opinion, is deemed not to be worth the paper it is written on. Any agreement that does not have proper independant legal advice for both parties is thrown out unless it is deemed to be reasonably fair to both parties and would meet the intent of the family law act. The law changes over time - the earlier comment of the need to reopen these documents every five years makes perfect sense!!!!

To all, Have a great day tomorrow!
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 02:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billm View Post
You signed it. The purpose of it was what happens if you split.

Why you are splitting is not relevant.

I wouldn't agree that the prenup should be set aside - but that does not mean that other agreements were made during the marriage that partially override the prenup.

Get a lawyer, but only to interpret the agreement (if you are unable to). Having it set aside because of some BS that you didn't understand it at the time you signed it is simply immoral and not true. Unless you have a learning disability that is
The real challenge is if the agreement wasn't reviewed with counsel prior to signing the agreement. If the agreement doesn't have a waiver clause recommending you review the marriage contract prior to signing there is a lot of grounds to drop it.

But, if you signed it and disregarded any clause that recommends you review it with a lawyer prior then you are going to be really stuck... Unless you have a really good lawyer.

Good Luck!
Tayken
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 09:31 AM
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Not likely to stand up in any court. She did not recv I.L.A. So the agreenent is not valid. Those things barely stand up these days with having had it reviewed by a lawyer (at the time). She was duped. I'd be very surprised if that "agreement" holds any water.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billm View Post
bully tactics?? advice vs opinion?? macho jerks?? ouch, stop with the bullying already.

So when people sign an agreement, the OTHER party is responsible for them doing due diligence? Sounds like she played along with him and his prenup all during the marriage, but AFTER it was over, she pulls the rug out from under him and cries that she never agreed to it? It is immoral at worst, irresponsible at best.

My advice is to honour your agreements - it will make the world a better place in my opinion.

I believe he was pulling the rug out from under her before the marriage began by way of how he presented the prenup to her and as to honouring her agreements....did he honour his agreement to her that he made during the wedding ceremony. I agree that the world would be a better place if agreements were kept, but they rarely are. My sister signed a prenup that was presented to her along with a lawyer that her soon to be spouse supplied. Even though she had legal advice, it was found to be conflict of interest due to both lawyers were supplied by her stbs. Quoting a lawyer "most prenups aren't worth the paper they're written on".
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:00 AM
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In Ontario, The agreement is totally enforceable if it meets the requirements of Section 55(1) of the Family Law Act. No independent legal advice is required, but it is a good idea to have a waiver clause for not having ILA.
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddol1 View Post
...
Manipulation of an individual under the stress of a quickly upcoming marriage, the stress, people tugging the bride from every direction. Sorry but not one recollection has been of gender reversal, not to say it has never happened because I would bet on it but to the point: For all the uphold your agreement voters: Why did hubby to-be not prep this document and present it with his proposal of marriage? Why is it so very common to hear of this issue hand in hand with "the night before, the week before, waive your right to legal (now why would any manipulative hubby to be ask this of his bride to be???)
SHE signed it and now does not want to honour it after pretending that it was okay for year and years, yet the 'hubby' was manipulative? BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by ddol1 View Post
Continue with - It happened for what ever reason but why has one of these last minute deciepts ever came with a 12 month clause that states you (usually the bride) have this time to read and understand this document when the dust settles and as a trusting new husband allow a clause to give the new bride the right to make any modification to said document and without question, and with full trust, any and all modifications will be accepted and become part of the final aggreement?
Total BS. She signed it in a hurry, under pressure - poor frail little woman that is helpless and doesn't understand the big world around her...is that the way you view women?

And IT DOES have a 12 month clause - meaning that she could have and should have reviewed at her leisure at any time after the marriage started, and if she didn't like what she signed, then change it (new agreement, or divorce).

He trusted her, she is breaking that trust, not the other way around. The agreement was written in English, she signed it, knowing what it contained. If she didn't she should have sought out legal advice. She sat on it for the entire marriage and then when its over THEN she says she doesn't want to follow it - THAT is deceitful.

Adults should be responsible for their own actions, and their signature and agreements should bind them. Unless the husband lied about something, which the OP did not state. She is made her bed, agreed to the prenup - there is no justification to not honour it.
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-13-2011, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suncoast View Post
Eleven years. It is my understanding that these prenups have to be "re-adressed" every 5 years. also not getting ILA could effect the standing of the aggrement of the husband. ILA should have been insisted upon. it would look to me that it could be claimed as a deliberately planned tactic to avoid scrutiny of an agreement that a lawyer may very well have disagreed with. And by the way Senior members stop with the bully tactics you sound like macho jerks (or Trolls) the person wants advice not your "Damaged" opinions so give the attitude a rest.
And....who are you, exactly? Perhaps if you'd like to make a sweeping generalization about people whose posts you disagree with, you might take a moment to figure out the gender of the poster before making sexist comments that make YOU look like a jerk.

Just a thought.

Either way, legally I believe that without counsel, the agreement may be set aside, even if the right to counsel was waived. I do question if the circumstances surrounding the split were different (ie: growing apart, life changes etc.) and unrelated to your ex having an affair, if it would be as important to you to revisit the pre-nup. Sounds like a little retaliation going on to me.
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2011, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judepude View Post
Has anyone every gotten a prenup put aside. My husband had me sign one 17 years ago one week before our wedding. He said it was to just cover his company which I totally understood. When I started reading it there was alot more to it than that but I was totally in love and signed off on getting a lawyer to look at it. Now I have found out that he has been cheating on me for 2 and a half years on and off. He wants a divorce and refuses to give me anything except 1/2 the house. He made me quit my job 11 years ago saying that he could pull a bigger paycheque out of his company in his name than what I was making. Now I have been out of the work force for to long and I am also 59. I am soooo stressed out and worried about what will happen. Any input.
Judepude,

Please don't take the nastiness seriously. Sometimes you get great advice on here - other times you get nastiness. It's raining this week - perhaps it's put them all in a bad mood.

Good luck with your situation and please don't let it dissuade you from posting again.
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2011, 02:28 PM
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[quote=CSAngel;77314]Judepude,

Please don't take the nastiness seriously. Sometimes you get great advice on here - other times you get nastiness. It's raining this week - perhaps it's put them all in a bad mood.

Good luck with your situation and please don't let it dissuade you from posting again.[/Thanks, I needed a little more inlighting note about this mess.
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