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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 10-20-2008, 10:16 AM
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Default Working OT to pay when she is not working at all.

Its only been a few months since everything has been settled, but I am finding my self having to work overtime to meet my payments of CS and SS while she is not working at all. When we were together I did work OT to manage expenses, but I don't need to anymore to manage my home. Can I motion to have this reduced if she is not even working? I find it very wierd that I have to work overtime to pay her when she does not have to work at all, and lives in a new home, and has a boyfriend that works who is living with her for over three months now.

And I f I were to have someone move in with me.....would their income count?

Just would like an opinion.
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Old 10-20-2008, 12:29 PM
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Generally OT should not be part of the calculations for either CS or SS.
This is something you can request to change with the courts.
You would have to show that now you are being forced to work OT to meet your CS and SS obligations.

When my husband's ex wanted to raise CS, she claimed his income was some $5000 more then it was. She claimed it based on the OT that he had worked.
So he went back to court and they re-calculated his CS (he did not have SS) based on his hourly wage, and specifically stated that if he did work OT that at the end of each year the ex was allowed to ask for his T'4 or notice of assessment to determine if his income meant that he should have paid more towards CS. IE say CS was set @ $30,000 (1 child = $270/month) but he works OT for $2000 above that, = $32,000 (1 child = $293/month) , difference = $276.00 sent at year end. And equally the other way, if it turned out he was off sick or for other family issues and his income was below the base, we would take teh difference off one of the months of CS to balance it. The onus would be on one party to request a re-assessment each year, but we did it automatically without her ever having to request it. Either we sent an amount due or deducted the overpayment from one of the CS payments and provided her with all the documents to support the adjustment. That way dad was never "forced" to work OT.
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:18 PM
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Default Ot

The problem is, she has an inputed income of $35k. I still pay $18k per year over and above. If she does not make an effort to make the $35k, can she collect more from me after review of my T4? Even if I do work OT to get some extra cash to build up my life again?
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Old 10-24-2008, 12:32 PM
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"Girard", this is a sticky situation as she has had an income inputted on her, and your support order was based on a T4 that included OT. The input of income was for the purpose of determining the SS entitlement, ad if she continues to refuse to work, you may have grounds to terminate SS as this is generally awarded to support the parent until they are able to become self sufficient. If there are no physical or medical reasons for her not working this is the stand that I would take.

For the CS order to change to only include base wages you would have to stop working OT. I think the premise is that the courts feel that your family deserves to benefit from the extra ability you have established to earn income. Despite the fact that you are NOW basically working OT to maintain the same level of income that your CS/SS order was based.

Personally I would simply ask that the courts set your CS order on your base wages, to be adjusted yearly according to your T4, that way you are "only" paying relative to the actual income you earn and then the choice would be yours to work OT or not, knowing in advance that if you do, at the end of the year you'll have to subsidize your payments with a balance owing for the extra time worked. But because of her position not to work I would certainly look into terminating SS.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:16 PM
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Can I do this as early as 1 year after the separation agreement was made?
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Old 10-27-2008, 09:26 AM
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The general time frame set for SS is around 3 years, but can be longer for various reason, one being a lengthy relationship.

If after a year she "refuses" to be employed to not only help herself but the children as well, I would ask the courts to review the SS claim.

I feel the onus would be on you to demonstrate that she was intentionally unemployed. If you know of any emotional issues going on for her, IE death in the family etc, the courts may view this as an acceptable reason for her lack of employment. I know it hardly sounds fare, but the receiving parent usually is granted greater lenience’s then the paying parent. Either way the onus would be on you to show she was not actively seeking to become self supportive, and ask for a change/termination. I still think the courts may lean towards giving her more time, just because of my experiences with the FL system. Just remember SS is based on means of the payer and need of the recipient. Then the courts factor in the variables like the duration of the relationship, how long the person was out of the work force to raise children, recipient’s age and employability if she/he did upgrade their education, etc. If you can clearly use these factors and have a strong case the SS should not be granted you may be able to take it to court even though it has only been a year.
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Old 10-29-2008, 10:50 AM
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Default Poor Planning

I am pretty positive that she is not upgrading her education. The children have not said so, but I do not grill them for information. She moved out of the school district after the house was sold and has to drive the children some 20+ km to school and pick them up as well. Kids say that she plans to move back into the district after the school year. So having this bi-weekly schedule does not support full time employment for her. And she seems to be skating by on the handsome sum that she recieves from me monthly. I cant see her getting a mortgage without employment so she may need to rent. The town that I live in does not have a whole lot available, so I would be surprised to see if she does find housing in the school district again. Can I use her bad planning and choice of residence as a tool against her in this debate? I mean if I can find residence in the school district, and after a year or better she should be able to as well......does the excuse of driving the children to school hold any water here?


She also has an imputed income of $35K. I am pretty sure that she will not show any income other than SS.

Any other angles I should be looking at?
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Old 10-29-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girard View Post
Can I use her bad planning and choice of residence as a tool against her in this debate? I mean if I can find residence in the school district, and after a year or better she should be able to as well.
Unfortunately not. Her choice of places to live would only factor in if you had an agreement that clearly stated she was not to move from the area, or the area she moved to was a clear disadvantage to the children's well being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by girard View Post
does the excuse of driving the children to school hold any water here?
It will likely hold some weight with respect to her claim that she is unable to become full time employed. Then you can counter with something like, she intentionally moved out of the area after the home was sold rather then relocating to another place within the school district. Had she chosen to live within the district she cold gain full time employment. However, as it stands she already has an income inputted to her for the purpose of SS, so there is no change there, and CS is purely based on your income.

The only request that you could make is for termination of SS or at the minimum, a time limit set for it. And this is where your angle of not seeking full time employment for the purpose of becoming self supportive comes into play. SS is based on the receiver's need, and the payer's ability to pay. Your ability to pay has already been established, however, her need has changed, not that she needs less, but that she has done nothing to contribute to the "need" that was originally established. And because of this lack off desire to help herself you may win a case for termination or time limit or a reduction or some combination there of.
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Old 10-30-2008, 10:18 AM
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Default Time limit to SS

I currently have a six year limit. And I can kind of live with that......but its the monthly payment that I'm making, when she will not even come close to the imputed income that was assigned. When we were in negotiations, I estimated my salary for this year and I will overshoot it by about $10K. So I am a little worried about her trying to collect more.

You clearly state that it is based on need. I do find it fairly comforting that if she shows an income of Zero other than what I pay her, then she will not be able to increase SS. But I really would like it cut it back to Zero or at least to my Base Salary. But I'm not sure how harsh the courts will go on her. The last few times the Judge said to her "Get a Job"

Will the courts see my point on this? Or do they tend to lean toward her in this situation? Will they cut back the time limit just because I want to keep the money I earn? Or do they not care about how fast I can get my life back together financially if she is too lazy to even make an effort to be self supportive?

It looks like I have no control over CS. If I make it.....I pay it!!!

The trouble is....its not tax deductable.
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Old 10-31-2008, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girard View Post
Will the courts see my point on this? Or do they tend to lean toward her in this situation? Will they cut back the time limit just because I want to keep the money I earn? Or do they not care about how fast I can get my life back together financially if she is too lazy to even make an effort to be self supportive?

It looks like I have no control over CS. If I make it.....I pay it!!!

The trouble is....its not tax deductable.
I think the courts set 6 years in the hopes it would give her more then enough time to get on her feet to be self supportive. The only angle that you may have to reduce the SS amount and/or time limit is showing the courts that she is doing nothing the help herself, and that you feel because of this, after 6 years she'll still be where she is today, that she is relying to heavily on your support and not trying to help herself.

But again this is a crap shoot, you never know what kind of judge you'll get or how they will rule. You need to weigh the costs, both emotionally and financially. I think though, that should this linger for the given time limit, and she still has done nothing, or waited until the last minute to start helping herself, that you would have a very strong case should she seek to have the time frame extended. I mean really, what court will look at her situation, and see that she either waited until it was far too late to help herself or simply did not bother, thinking the cash train would be endless.

I know that's not what you want to hear, but that's the best that I feel anyone could hope for in your situation.
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