We know what we want - do we HAVE to fill out form 13.1?

[billm]

Regarding separation agreement and form 13.1 - wife's lawyer says it is necessary, but we don't think it is.

My wife and I have a pretty simple situation and have decided on everything including how to split our assets/debts, child support (using federal tables), spousal support (I am paying her compensation for loss in earning potential while raising kids which is easy to calculate as she is an RN).

We both have lawyers, but have not used them really to reach an agreement. Her lawyer is saying that I must fill out form 13.1, which from my point of view is a bunch of crap as we have decided on everything, so who cares what my water bill is, or how much I pay for parking - WE DON'T CARE, we know what we have and we know how to divide by 2!!! Support payments for us are simple and not based on need, but based on what she lost in earning potential (which I am compensating her for relative to my salary to hers). We want to be independent individuals and our agreement for financial separation supports that idea. We both have good incomes and any difference with respect to child care is taken care of by child support which we will adjust every year based on what we actually make.

Is her lawyer being unreasonable? I think my lawyer also wants it - but we don't see a need, but we do want our agreement to be legal and enforceable.

[Kimberley]

As far as I recall (though I could be wrong) I think those at this site directly offer an option for a legal separation at a reasonable price rather than paying 2 different lawyers who would rather milk you for more money than allow you both to settle things amicably.
If you both already know what your decisions are & agree that they are fair & just not only for this moment in time, but for the future as well, then I'd say look into it instead of wasting the time, money & stress trying to get your agreement hammered out using lawyers who have their own agendas.

[billm]

One lawyer sounds good but...

Here is what her lawyer wrote me:

"Have you completed a form 13.1 financial statement. If not, please do so. I can not advise her properly without this. If you want this Agreement to be enforceable, you have to have certificates of independent legal advice. I cannot provide such a certificate unless I calculate net family properties, which I can not do without a form 13.1 sworn statement provided by you."

So does this mean that in Ontario you both need a lawyer?

I like the idea of a 'certificate of independent legal advice' as this adds to the binding of the agreement which is what I want.

[Kimberley]

To be honest, I really couldn't tell you that for certain, but I do not have a lawyer at all, I am self-represented and will continue on this path regardless. I tried the lawyer route once already, and after 18 months, numerous court appearances and more bills than I could manage raising 4 children without child support - with NOTHING done; I can tell you I will never pay an ounce to a lawyer again.
The 'advise her properly' line really means 'I don't know for certain how much money I can squeeze out of you to pay her even though you both are trying to remain amicable' IMO of course

[logicalvelocity]

The separation agreement can be set aside and may not be considered legal and binding by the court if:

Firstly, full and complete financial disclosure does not occur between the parties;

Secondly, each party did not seek independent legal advice; and,

Lastly, the Separation agreement is not witnessed properly.

[billm]

Thanks, very clear reply!

[Ihave2kidsIcannotsee]

Hi, I just have a question concerning form 13 1, my husband who is divorced was asked by the court to fill out this form, we cannot understand why she needs to see his property when marital property was already dealt with 15 years ago when he divorced her? anyone know if he really needs to fill this form out or not? We both don't trust lawyers as 4 of them have taken 1,000s from us and done nothing but make him pay more support then he was supposed to! thanks in advance for any responses.

[dadtotheend]

Parties are free to, even encouraged to, make their own agreements that vary from what a court might order.

The lawyer has a responsibility to his client to advise her what she would get should the matter be litigated, so the financial disclosure is necessary. If the two of you decide to depart from what a court might order, that will be fine as long as the conditions specified by LV above are met.

Of course you should be leery of the possibility that her lawyer will try to squeeze your money out of the two of you by setting you off against one another, but if you are intent on making your own agreeement, then hopefully that won't happen.