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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2016, 06:14 PM
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Back in front of the judge again today... now 15 months trying to change CS as both kids have left home for University.

This was a SC with the same judge who declared (in June) the full motion was "unresolvable".

Essentially, judge wasn't overly prepared (didn't read either SC brief), and nothing was resolved. He basically said to start the full motion overall again from scratch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
Thats such bs especially if kid is eligible for grants from OSAP. They dont have to use the loans, they can use the tuition discount if eligible and the grant money.
The kids *are* eligible for OSAP, but it is about 12% of their overall costs. Yes, this does count as the childs contribution.

Couple of key points which were re-emphasized:
- In Ontario (his emphasis), no child should be expected to contribute a penny of their money towards University... unless they earned $8-10k during the summer... in which case a $2k contribution would be appropriate. He was pretty clear that every judge (in Ontario) thinks this way.
I brought up case law (saying the opposite) from other provinces which he dismissed outright.
- No child is expected to work during the summer.
- Absolutely no receipts or proof of payments are expected for living expenses. Now that we have a full year under our belts with off-campus living, I said there should be hard evidence of the costs.... no way he said... he just made up an arbitrary number and said it shall be so.
- Full trust is given to the custodial parent that ALL s.7 payments (from each party) will be given to the children. No receipts or proof of payments required. He said his job is to sort out the difference between me and her... how the money gets to the kids is out of his concern.

One of my boys has a more expensive vehicle and cell phone than myself... and both will have more disposable income..

My numbness continues...
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Old 10-04-2016, 06:40 PM
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Perhaps the judge read the Alberta Court of Appeal decision which I forwarded to you earlier in this thread?

https://www.canlii.org/en/ab/abca/do...16abca177.html

...We do make one comment, and that is with respect to the order that each child bear responsibility for repayment of one third of her student loan. In making that order, the chambers judge appeared to be of the view that he was required in law to order that the children share in the payment of those student loans. No such absolute requirement exists in law. Although many courts have stated that adult children should make a reasonable contribution to their education, the question of what is reasonable is very much a matter in the discretion of the trial judge and will vary with the circumstances of the child and of the parents. With respect to student loan debt, in particular, courts are often reluctant to require children to incur debt to fund their education where parents have the means to assist: see, e.g., Montalto v Montalto, 2011 ABQB 574 (CanLII) at paras 27-28; Rebenchuk v Rebenchuk, 2007 MBCA 22 (CanLII), 279 DLR (4th) 448; WPN v BJN, 2005 BCCA 7 (CanLII), 249 DLR (4th) 352.
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Old 10-04-2016, 07:02 PM
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I did read that Arabian... and it does appear that he followed that philosophy... it all comes down to the definition of "reasonable".

I had a several caselaw with the kids paying "something".. not even 1/3... but this judge said, "a child must make at least $8k during the summer to even be considered to make a contribution."

I am in no means asking that a child goes into debt, but on an education which costs $25k/year, "having the means to assist" hits me extremely hard... and a kid paying 10% of that I don't think is "unreasonable".
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Old 10-04-2016, 07:06 PM
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Maybe by refiling the motion it might reset some discussions?
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Old 10-04-2016, 07:30 PM
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Possibly... but he was very adamant, "all judges in Ontario think this way".

Who knows...

In the grand scheme of things I simply want the kids to show a "little" responsibility by kicking in $2k/yr on a $25k/yr education...

Problem now is she is so much in arrears to both me and the kids, getting that straightened out is harder with each passing month.... "resetting" discussions is becoming secondary.

This should not be rocket science... and the fact that after 16 months the Ontario Justice System can't sort out a simple issue is what kills me.

Even if one thinks I am the problem.. the fact this will drag on another year or more is beyond disgusting.

Doesn't ANYONE think of the Children ??????????? Aaaarrrggghh!
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Old 10-04-2016, 08:20 PM
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My partners lawyer would argue with that one. Hes been successful in a number of post secondary cases with the 1/3 split.
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