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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 07-14-2017, 06:51 PM
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Default Under reporting, No NOA, Changing level of support

This is my first post but will try to make this as succinct as possible. I am really confused as to what might transpire.
There is a Support Order in place based on an income level arbitrarily set by the mediator (as he just became unemployed!) After signing the agreement, I found he was actually opening a business with his new spouse and that's why he could not find a job! The support order was for two kids and extraordinary expenses included at $622 a month. Settled on this as it was better than nothing but had been getting $1300 until then. So fast forward and he has never contributed to any major medical bills or schooling nor has he supplied his notice of assessment. Oldest goes off to university and I ask for assistance for tuition etc... and he won't contribute. He even argued that his support should be lowered as the child is away at University! Child comes home and without resources, he has to register at local University. Again ex-says child is home and working (for the summer) and again says he does not want to pay that portion of the child support. Without ever giving me his NOA. I ignore. Son is now moved out and youngest going into last year of high school. Ex says ok he's cutting the support in half. I said fine and send me your NOA so we can reassess. Again, nothing is forthcoming. So I do nothing and after a year like this he's still paying the same level of support and is now threatening me that I have committed fraud! I have supplied him all my NOA's and I have full custody of both kids. I offered to reduce the support to $500 a month to avoid spending more on lawyers, missed work etc and he still won't budge. All these years he has maintained he has no income but he and his new wife have two stores and a gas station and a home on the water and a vacation home, of course, all in her name. As well, I have social media, magazine articles etc...with his name all over it and even a friend (he did not know) went into the store and he was there acting like the owner and working and even some ghost calls and was told: "Oh he's out on a delivery". Based on this FRO tries to send a notice to garnish but are told he's not on the payroll. So I continue to have to ask for support every month, as he never pays on time and he knows FRO won't do anything until he's 60 days late. He sends odd amounts on the 60th day to avoid FRO and to make it impossible for me to even attempt to collect interest on the late payments.
I have maintained the ownes is on him to bring a motion to change the level of support and that I asked for his NOA but without it, I can't agree to reduce the level of support until I know what our youngest is entitled to. So whats my best recourse? Would the judge look unfavorably on me, do i have a leg to stand on? What should I do?
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:01 PM
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You should really get after FRO to enforce current order. They can go after money hidden by 3rd party.

I'd forget about cutting this guy any slack in the future.

Mediation, in your case, was/is useless. You need concise court order where he has to present full financial disclosure (including money/assets under wifey's name). If your lawyer won't handle this then I'd suggest you get another lawyer.

What usually is required is several appearances at court (expect your ex to request adjournment over and over). You need concise orders which FRO can enforce. Only way to get that is from judge in court. So you have to find a lawyer who is hip to fast-forwarding through useless mediation and case conferencing.

Full financial disclosure is essential. You may have to spend some money to obtain it but it will likely be worth it in the end. A competent, experienced Family Court lawyer will know how to handle this.

BTW - you don't just want a mere NOA - you want his full, detailed income tax return along with all of his company general ledger, HST filings, etc. You may have to get an order specifying exactly what financial disclosure is required. As he is self-employed court will understand the necessity. Your lawyer should also ask you to obtain a detailed statement from FRO showing his payment history.

Last edited by arabian; 07-14-2017 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:02 PM
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If FRO gives you the run around, call the Ontario Ombudsman and sic them on FRO. Guaranteed you'll get action then.
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Old 07-14-2017, 08:52 PM
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Stillbreathing has a good point. Keep in mind that FRO, or any other maintenance enforcement agency, is basically a call centre. You have to escalate your issue appropriately the same way you would if you had an issue with a Bell or Telus bill. I found it helpful to always "fax" or email my issues. That way you always have proof of your pursuing the matter with FRO. If/when you go through the Ombudsman you might have to provide a chronological summary of the steps you have done to get things going. FRO, on the other hand, will have to explain why their decisions are not administratively unfair. In the end, FRO/MEP, are the collection agency for court.
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:56 PM
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Hi Did that and they do escalate however FRO's hands are tied by the rules. Not until after 60 days of non-payment will they do anything and as long as he dribbles in a little bit they won't do anything. So the pattern is 60 days goes by I call, he deposits 166.33 cents and they won't do anything to collect the $1077.67. Im told him that's all I have even though the court order says on the 1st of the month. he enjoys making me ask. He even said I will pay the kids directly???
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:00 PM
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Thanks for the advice. Question; Can they really ask for the wife's financials? And what if he is just making enough to warrant the level of support could I claim he's under employed and living off the avails of his wife? Frankly, I think he was using a little-known tax cut by taking monies from the company and putting them in life insurance policies and drawing down on them. That's not taxable, however, this lope whole is closed now...So I am sure he has some other scheme going.
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:02 PM
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Ok! that's good advice will send faxes for my requests as I have left three messages in the last two weeks and only a call and no info was left after me telling them they can leave the reply to my questions. And this probably the 5th case worker I have had argh
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Old 07-16-2017, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by negotiator55 View Post
Hi Did that and they do escalate however FRO's hands are tied by the rules. Not until after 60 days of non-payment will they do anything and as long as he dribbles in a little bit they won't do anything. So the pattern is 60 days goes by I call, he deposits 166.33 cents and they won't do anything to collect the $1077.67. Im told him that's all I have even though the court order says on the 1st of the month. he enjoys making me ask. He even said I will pay the kids directly???
Keep the pressure on FRO. If he is "gaming" them they should be moving up their steps for collection (drivers' license suspension for example).

I can assure you that FRO knows all the tricks. The thing is, you need your file to escalate to a more senior collection level. Most people don't pursue this and the file stays in the lower rungs of collection. Reason being is that FRO/MEP collect from tens of thousands of deadbeats each and every month. They know the game your ex is playing. Once FRO determines when it is time to up the pressure they need to dot their "i's with well-documented information showing the pattern. With this information they can get those very-elusive, but not unheard of, things such as court-ordered garnishee of bank accounts. Yes they do indeed eventually go after the 3rd party but typically only with corroborating information. If you live in Ontario I believe you have a designated individual you speak with at FRO. In Alberta there is no "file ownership" so you only are able to speak with whomever answers the phone.

Persist incessantly with FRO. Always write down, and refer to, the name of the current FRO individual. Should you need to go to the Ombudsman it is helpful to have this information. Follow-up each and every phone call with a fax if possible.... pepper them with paperwork.

I would cease calling your ex. Don't let him know what you are doing and with whom you are speaking with at FRO. It may be difficult but it will pay off in the end.

Last edited by arabian; 07-16-2017 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:25 AM
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What about asking for the Wife's records? Can I really ask for that?
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:29 AM
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If they own the business together then you can ask for the full business records to show what he is paying. If he is saying he is making no money you can request her income information as it is the household income which is relevant to support calculations.

You may want to do some research on this forum and canlii about business income, what expenses are allowed or are included in income calculations, under reporting and imputing income. You can also look into the term "household income" for child support.
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