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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 06-03-2013, 07:15 PM
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Default Stock Equity

As previously mentioned, I've discovered that my ex has not disclosed all marital assets. One of the things he didn't disclose was a trading account (he may have more than one). I have a question about whether the equalization formula is the same for this type of asset.

The argument that I'm expecting is that my ex will try to say that since he owned certain stock prior to marriage that any equity gain in that stock is not subject to equalization.

The second argument that I'm expecting him to make is that if he used the principal or profit from pre-marital owned stock to purchase another stock that that stock is also not subject to equalization.

I would imagine that his argument isn't going to fly...but I didn't know if this type of asset was handled differently from any other type of asset that increases in value over the valuation dates for marriage.

Can any experienced posters help me with this?
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:22 PM
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I had to include mine in our disclosure. The value for disclosure was based upon the value at time of marriage, to time of separation. So the increase was counted as an asset gain during marriage.
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Old 06-03-2013, 07:24 PM
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Thank you MayMay.

So basically its handled the same way as any other marital asset. Good to know.
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Old 06-03-2013, 09:19 PM
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There are exceptions:

If the origin of the money was from an inheritance then the account would be excluded property.

Also, if the origin of the money was from an insurance settlement, it would be excluded.

Having said that, even if that's the case, he should have listed the account on the forms as excluded property. the onus is on him to show that it's excluded property.

He could conceivably have some kind of argument that he holds the account in trust for someone else....again, he would have to prove this.

Failing those arguments, if he had the account prior to marriage the gains would be subject to equalization.

If the account was opened during the marriage, and it was funded from savings/earnings during the marriage, then the whole account is an asset and is equalized.

Failing to disclose the account will not please the judge.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:58 AM
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Thank you.

None of those excluded scenarios are applicable.

To date: After 2.5 years pursuing disclosure including undertakings and 3 motions...to date there are still the following non-disclosures (these are just the ones I've found based on his partial documents):

1. An owned business
2. At least one large trading account...very possibly more than one
3. Another RRSP
4. An owned LLC early in marriage

The SC judge asked him last Friday directly to his face whether or not there were any further disclosures and he said "no"...knowing we're going to trial in a month.

Frankly, if anyone has earned having his ass handed to him in family law court...its my ex. Seriously, even I'm in shock at the depth of his deception...and I have a feeling that I've only uncovered the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 06-04-2013, 08:14 AM
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I hear you, PH. Yesterday at the CC, my stbx continued to lie and say that the household assets were valued at an insanely high rate, 10x the amount of the professional appraisers' value. He's still not forthcoming on his financial statements. So many other issues...it just seems like he wants to confuse and generate even more hostility than he has already.

Sounds like your ex and mine would be great friends. My lawyer says we either roll over or go to trial. It looks like it will be the latter, unfortunately.

All the best. I will be reading your posts with vicarious interest and pleasure.
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Old 06-04-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
He's still not forthcoming on his financial statements. So many other issues...it just seems like he wants to confuse and generate even more hostility than he has already.
I think what I'm most amazed at is how much tolerance and latitude the court hasn't given my ex to-date. And how much money that latitude has cost me in the process.

He shows complete disdain for the court system and the court orders that we already have in place. He was literally told to follow the custody agreement on Friday by the judge for the 2nd time and continues this week violate a major clause of it.

He ignores all the rules of disclosure. He thinks he can decide that things he doesn't want to put on his asset list aren't "marital assets" because he thinks they belong only to him since he hid them away during marriage.

And when his behavior is called into question in a court room setting, he gets beligerent, rude and disrespectful. If he shows up, he's often late.

The result has been my having to spend a lot of money on my own legal fees because my lawyer is forced to handle the nonsensical document dump he keeps doing in a vain attempt to mislead the court.

Throughout this whole process, I've just wanted it over in the most peaceful way possible...to not have to be forced into a trial. But now, I can honestly tell you that a trial is starting to look extremely attractive to me. I want his actions to finally catch up to him. I want him to recognize that his greed and unreasonable behavior actually ensured his demise. And I want it to be on public record what a deceitful manipulator he is.

Its almost certainly unavoidable anyway. There is no way that he's going to disclose his assets.

His next step is probably to try to get a trial adjournment so he can stall again.

By the way: Thank you Caranna and best wishes to you in trying to get your case finalized. I know how stressful and tiring it is.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:05 AM
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You can ask the judge to order a forensic audit at the expense of your ex. Given his lack of disclosure, it's a reasonable request.

That said, it is a fairly expensive undertaking. You have to decide if it's worth it, at the end of the day it's your money also he may suddenly be more for forthcoming if faced with the possibility of such an audit.

You may get the same results from a simple letter from your lawyer requesting it.

One thing I would say though. It's easy to imagine that there is all kinds of hidden money. When you see all the earnings over a number of years it seems like so much money, that there must be more hidden somewhere. Often, there isn't.

Good luck.
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Old 06-04-2013, 10:27 AM
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One thing I would say though. It's easy to imagine that there is all kinds of hidden money. When you see all the earnings over a number of years it seems like so much money, that there must be more hidden somewhere. Often, there isn't.
I can guarantee you that there's a lot more money. The contributions to the one RRSP that he didn't list is over 20k a year.

He's trading over 100k in stocks out of the trading account that isn't disclosed. The capital gains are listed on the worksheet in his tax return.

What happened was that my ex is on his 3rd lawyer. Lawyer #2 was the one who was around through all the disclosure motions we had and when my ex basically went nuts on him (this lawyer wiped his entire bill on the condition that he basically stays away from him), the lawyer sent all the disclosures he had to-date to my lawyer's office. Including the ones he didn't have time to parse.

There's also no doubt that he bought into a business. He pulled off sheets from his tax return but forgot the sheets where he listed his deductions for his vehicle...gas, maintenance and border fees.

You cannot claim this under CRA rules unless you have a legitimate business expense.

In the years that I have his returns for...there is about 500k in stock equity that was made and transferred to ??? And that's the years that I have...there are about 6 years of missing returns.

There's a reason that my ex is fighting so hard to not disclose the accounts and account numbers and is only sending over certain pages of his tax returns.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:27 AM
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PH:

Isn't it more important that you make peace and move on with your life and take responsibility for yourself going forward?

Why are you pushing so hard to milk your ex for everything he's worth?

Your motivations for pushing for trial sound purely emotional and vindictive and will do nothing but harm you and your family in the long run. You will NEVER find peace or satisfaction in going to court for those reasons. It's much more likely you or your ex will simply declare bankruptcy by the time its over and no one will have any assets left for their own lives or the children's future.

Try to avoid getting so caught up in the emotions of "revenge". The goal in this process is for you to be separate and apart...
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