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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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Old 09-14-2016, 02:08 PM
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Default SSAG and Disability

If anybody out there could help me find some case law on application of SSAG "with child support" where the recipient has a long term disability (no longer works). It would be greatly appreciated.

I will give a brief description, if that helps.
Cohabitation 15yrs / Marriage 5
2 children (D7 - S9) Shared 50-50
STBX has been on long term disabilty for approx 10 years

We are trying to settle out of court and the range in SS is so broad that I am finding it difficult to know where to put in an offer on duration and amount. In the interim I have been paying at the higher end of the range but this is unsustainable and leaves her in a position where she is actually earning quite a bit more than I. Looking for some case law to give me some direction. Any suggestions or advice is welcome.
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Old 09-21-2016, 01:29 AM
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This can be very tricky and I want you to listen very carefully. Many times the spousal support payor gets totally screwed in situations like this because of ignorance of Lawyers, divorcemate, Judges etc....

Here are the questions you need to answer before I can guide you.

1. Is the STBX receiving disability payments from a disability insurer such as Great West Life, RBC, Manulife?

2. If yes are these payments part of a WLRP (taxable) or not (non-taxable) and how much are the payments?

3. Is the STBX receiving taxable CPP disability payments and if so, how much are the payments?

4. Is the STBX receiving the disability tax credit?

Answer this 4 questions and we'll go from there.
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Old 09-21-2016, 07:55 AM
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Hi,
First off ... I am having a bit of trouble getting full financial disclosure so I will answer the questions the best I can from knowledge of doing our taxes while married.

1. Yes it is payments from insurer.
2. I believe they are taxable in the amount of 1000$ per month
3. She receives approx 1100 from cpp. We went to tribunal to get this while married at the request of the insurer.
4. I do not know this. If it is available I would have to assume she gest it.

I would prefer to avoid the spousal support entirely. Thinking of offering child support but 100$ above the offset.
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Old 09-21-2016, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by calicodacat View Post
If anybody out there could help me find some case law on application of SSAG "with child support" where the recipient has a long term disability (no longer works). It would be greatly appreciated.

I will give a brief description, if that helps.
Cohabitation 15yrs / Marriage 5
2 children (D7 - S9) Shared 50-50
STBX has been on long term disabilty for approx 10 years

We are trying to settle out of court and the range in SS is so broad that I am finding it difficult to know where to put in an offer on duration and amount. In the interim I have been paying at the higher end of the range but this is unsustainable and leaves her in a position where she is actually earning quite a bit more than I. Looking for some case law to give me some direction. Any suggestions or advice is welcome.
I just realized there is a mistake in above info cohabitation was 10yrs not 15. I understand this can make a difference in spousal support cases as there is a 20 year threshold.
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Old 09-21-2016, 09:53 AM
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To be blunt, it doesn't matter what you want, it's the way the courts see it. Which means you have to present a case to only pay the offset and no spousal support. That may be feasible but it depends on what your income and the STBX's income is.

You can't assume anything otherwise you'll look unprepared. You mention you did the taxes when you were married. Look at Line 316. This is where the disability tax credit would be claimed if the STBX is eligible. Here is the Revenue Canada link

Line*316*? Disability amount for self

Is there an amount there? If there is no amount, did the STBX ever apply for the disability tax credit. If not, the STBX needs to apply ASAP. This is not given to you, you have to apply for it.

You say you believe they are taxable. If they are taxable, they would appear on the tax return. It's also possible they are part taxable and part non taxable. You need to know this because a portion might not appear on the tax return.

What is the exact figure for her CPP? No approximates.

How much do you make? Are you an employee or self employed? Is your income in dispute?

How much do you each receive in government benefits?
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:21 AM
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Hi DD,

The negotiations are out of court, between her and I atm. I do not have copies of her past taxes, she took this in the separation. I have been pushing for all of her financials but so far she seems disorganized at best. I will have to wait to to answer some of your questions (CPP, diability tax credit and taxable or non taxable).

I make 54k but will be starting new job increasing to 63k in a couple of weeks. My income is not disputed. I am repartnered and new partner is working full time but at about 25k per yr, she has 3 children 1 of which lives with us full time. STBX reported 22.7K from what ive been told. At this time she receives full gov benefits for children, about 1300$ per month under new liberal program but this will probably change as soon as we have a written agreement, CRA will automatically start splitting if I understand? I have crunched the numbers (with what I have) and even with the raise and her loosing half the benefits she would still fall into the 40-45% range of our INDI's but again I do not have all the info.

Any other questions let me know. I will update this when I have all the info, hopefully sooner than later. She seems keen on getting this done and we have both been quite reasonable, I do understand there is an obligation to equalize and I would not want my kids to be without while with Mom, no matter how frustrating that is. Just trying to come up with something that is fair.
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:02 PM
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Keep lawyers out of it. You say the range is broad in spousal support. What program are you using? mysupportcalculator.ca? If so, be advised this program is a watered down version of Divorcemate which is itself a completely flawed program. Exactly what support are you paying now? How much child support and how much spousal support?.

So far your figures are inconsistent.

1,000 taxable insurer payments = 12,000/yr
1,100 taxable CPP = 13,200

Total is 25,200 and she told you 22,700.

Here is why the disability tax credit is critical. This would make another 7,899 of her income non taxable. With the basic federal and provincial exemption plus maybe an equivalent to married exemption, she may be paying no tax at all. In addition, if shes eligible for the disability tax credit, she also gets a non taxable payment for each of the children which is approximately 240 per month. It goes to her and is tacked on to her CPP payment until the children turn 18. When the child turns 18, the child receives the benefit directly as long as they are in school full time.

She could potentially be receiving the following at this time

1,000 (insurer) + 1,100 (CPP disability) + 1,300 (govt benefits) + 480 (CPP childrens benefit = 3,880 / mo PLUS what you are paying her for child and spousal support and most of it could be tax free.

This will likely change as she won't receive the 1,300 for long if its shared custody but you might be better off letting her have it and paying less child and spousal support. The two of you together will never receive the 1,300 that she is receiving on her own.

Let me know when you get further information and we can go from there.
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:34 PM
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Desperate_Dad have you ever investigated Welcome to childview.ca to see how their calculations work?
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Old 09-22-2016, 04:43 PM
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I got a copy of Divorcemate some years ago and I was not impressed. In my opinion, they have no clue what they are talking about regarding financial information. I actually emailed Childview a few years ago. For those of you who don't know, this is a child and spousal support program based out west. I asked them if I could have a copy and I would anallyze it for them and make recommendations for improvements. They never responded to my email. I have never seen the Childview program so its difficult for me to comment. However from what I saw online a few years back, it looks better than Divorcemate. I will check out that link you provided to see if I can make further comment now.
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Old 09-22-2016, 05:32 PM
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I think those numbers are pretty close. I have been paying 700$ per month in child support for almost 3 years. By my calculations she is actually taking home more money than I. I will enquire about the disability tax credit and update once I get financials.
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