SS settlement - separation agreement vs. consent order

[sandro]

Hi,
My wife's and my lawyers are working on a settlement.
I would like to make sure to the greatest extent possible that my wife has a prohibitively difficult time asking for more money after the current payments end in the future.

Our marriage was 1 year. She is on a student visa in Canada. Her position is that she lost her job in her home country and came here because of me, where she has no money and cannot legally work, and therefore, I have to pay for her immigration, psychologist, and tuition expenses. However, I anticipate that after the settlement's payments end, she will keep asking more money for various reasons, such as costs of psychological treatment and living expenses when she is unexpectedly diagnosed with a certain personality disorder that makes her unable to work, and will require higher tuition costs.

I am wondering if a separation agreement or a consent order is better in my situation. The separation agreement would explicitly state that SS extinguishes any claim she might make to me to pay for the costs of her counselling, tuition, and immigration. The consent order would just say "no future claims" and rely on the info in affidavits, in which my wife claimed that she cannot work now because of psych stress and needs money for tuition and immigration. My lawyer says it doesn't matter and prefers a consent order.

Can anyone offer advice?
From my shallow guess, I prefer explicit. If my wife asks for more money in the future, it may be costlier and messier to argue about that based on affidavits (we have 3 long ones from each side) that the future expenses have been anticipated.
Thanks.

[billm]

Holy crap - all that from a one year marriage? SS should not even be considered! She is not your problem, you tried marriage and it did not work, bye bye...she is responsible for her own actions - there is no gaurentee that a relationship will work and she can't expect one!

Make sure everything is explicit, but a separation agreement that is properly witnessed and with each of you having independent legal advice should be more than enough. That and a little time to establish you as individuals again considering your short marriage will seal the deal, assuming you can get her to sign something reasonable.

[About_Time]

I'm with Bill here. A one year marriage does not warrant spousal support and it certainly doesn't put you on the hook for for tuition, immigration fees and shrinks. She was a grown woman who opted to leave her country to be with you - and she accepted all the risks that entails willingly.

I would be stunned if a court ordered any such thing from you, but the courts have stunned me before. Throw her a bone on a little SS to put the whole mess behind you, but make sure it's explicit.

[today]

I would be curious why you woud set a precedent of pay any support with such a short marriage, say no support, good bye, good luck, then if you feel so inclined help out on your own terms, rather than risk a judgement. Say NO! Nothing, good bye.

[singledad99]

Totally agree with today on this. Why do you even entertain the idea of spousal support after such a short marriage? Call her bluff and tell her that you would take it to the trial. She left her country with her choice; you don't have to feel guilty for that. How do you know that she didn't use you as a ladder to come to Canada and to gain financial benefits from you since the whole world knows how crooked family law is in Canada?

[sandro]

Originally Posted by singledad99

Totally agree with today on this. Why do you even entertain the idea of spousal support after such a short marriage? Call her bluff and tell her that you would take it to the trial.

Thank you guys for your feedback. I am surprised there is hope of no payment.
But how about the Federal guidelines formula which says it's $150-$200/mo in my case for up to one year? My lawyer, whose analysis I am questioning, told me that after her lawyer tells the judge, "This poor little woman lives in a shelter, has no income, was emotionally abused, and her husband has savings and makes a decent salary", the judge is likely to set an amount per month high enough to cover living expenses, >$1K/mo, and the term is unpredictable, such as "until she begins to work". So my lawyer suggests to contain the possible damage and pay close to $20K in total because I have this money (was trying to save for a downpayment).

I am worried too that I may get a poor outcome if I reply that all that was false - she lives with friends, not in a shelter (but I have no proof), that it was me who was abused (but no evidence and doesn't sound credible that a small woman could repeatedly punch a man in the head, or face, or kick), that she wrote a backdated promissory note that the $10K she had at the time of separation was actually a loan from her father. My lawyer says, the judge will simply look - you have income, she has none and no chance until immigration to make money, so provide her at least in the interim.

So I would like to believe an almost unanimous opinion here that I should owe her nothing, but am also afraid to crash. Her arguments sounded persuasive even to me , no matter how false they are.
What do you think about the impact of them on the judge?

[PhoenixRising]

In this case I would say spousal support for one year as it was the length of the marriage and a plane ticket to her home country and be done with it.

Unfortunately, in immigration cases we as the individual sponsors are responsible to the individuals we sponsor for 5 years. Definitely, something we must consider carefully before undertaking the roll. A judge my just see it this way.

[sandro]

Originally Posted by PhoenixRising

Unfortunately, in immigration cases we as the individual sponsors are responsible to the individuals we sponsor for 5 years. Definitely, something we must consider carefully before undertaking the roll. A judge my just see it this way.

We separated (I left because of abuse and resulting illness, but how to convince the judge w/o proof?) before the sponsorship application was approved. Actually, sponsorship would be for 3 years. Is the judge likely to rule for 3 years of SS, in this case?

[PhoenixRising]

If you have no proof of abuse a judge won't even consider it. If sponsorship is 3 years then SS may possibly be ordered for that length of time it is a decision only a court can make. Sponsorship is a commitment to another person and it may be viewed this way in the court.

Maybe your focus should lie more in what the EX can do now to support herself and enable her to be self-sufficient in this country. Ie. schooling. Think of it in terms of if you were a recent immigrant how would you go about becoming successful. Perhaps you can raise these ideas within the court system and at least have a record. What if she has made no efforts in say 3 years and expects you to continue to pay. Then what. Try and find some way that it is recognized that she is accountable during this period.

Discuss this with your attorney.

[singledad99]

We separated (I left because of abuse and resulting illness, but how to convince the judge w/o proof?)

This is the beauty of the family law. You can accuse other party of anything without any evidence. Does your ex has any proof to her claim that you abused her? Most likely not but she is gonna play the card anyway. My ex accused me too of the same. It bothered me a lot in the beginning but now I am so used to it that I don't even bother to read her affidavits anymore.

sponsorship would be for 3 years. Is the judge likely to rule for 3 years of SS, in this case?

Your commitment to support her for 3 years has nothing to do with family law. The family court is not going to enforce the agreement that you signed with immigration. Even immigration can only come after you if she goes on welfare during the first 3 years after becoming landed immigration. If her application for permanent residence has not been approved, you can simply contact the immigration in writing and inform them that you are revoking your agreement. Make sure you get a confirmation from immigration of that. There is a newsgroup called misc.immigration.canada; you can post your question regarding this matter over there and hopefully some expert will answer it better than me.

If you agree to support her now, like what today said, you will be setting a precedence. She can then go back to court and claim the support again whenever her circumstances change. I am not against paying support; but one has to earn it first.